The Green Room Podcast

Ep 51 - Leverage your influencers - Learn Brands educates your budtenders. An interview w/ Max Armstrong, Founding Member & General Manager, at Learn Brands

January 04, 2022 Ronjini Joshua, Max Armstrong Episode 51
The Green Room Podcast
Ep 51 - Leverage your influencers - Learn Brands educates your budtenders. An interview w/ Max Armstrong, Founding Member & General Manager, at Learn Brands
Show Notes Transcript

We caught up with Max Armstrong from Learn Brands at mjbizcon 2021. This year, they are such a cruel educational technology platform for the cannabis industry. They offer a wide range of services from introductory classes to state mandated compliance training.  Learn Brands has delivered over 60,000 hours of training through its platform.

Max believes that approximately 80% of purchases come from the recommendations of budtenders.  They're your most powerful brand ambassador. So, giving them accurate information, letting them know about the products sold in their stores, is really vital.  As a result, the retailer has a lot of incentive just for having a more educated staff.

Listen to this episode to discover what Learn Brands can do for your cannabis-based business.

Max holds a BA in Communications, Environmental Studies, and a Minor in Oceanic and Atmospheric Studies from the University of Colorado. 

Connect w/ Learn Brands:

https://www.learnbrands.com/
https://www.facebook.com/learnbrands/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/learnbrands/
https://www.instagram.com/learnbrands/

Ronjini Joshua:

We caught up with Max Armstrong from learn brands at mjbizcon. This year, they are such a cruel educational technology platform for brands to be able to give information to bud tenders and bud tenders, as we all know, are the new influencers. So listen to this interview to learn how Max and learned brands are really helping retailers, educate consumers, and how we're educating bud tenders to create a really awesome profession for the cannabis industry and educate and create knowledge base that can kind of carry over for both brands and retailers. Now let's step into the green room with Max Armstrong, the general manager of learn brands, Hi, Max, how are you?

Max Armstrong:

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show.

Ronjini Joshua:

Absolutely. So first, we're gonna kind of talking about mjbizcon. Um, you guys are exhibiting at the Expo. What was like kind of the most exciting thing that you were anticipating as you came to Vegas this year?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah, I mean, our company is across 15 different states. So it's just a collective space where a lot of our clients and leads are going to be all in one space. So we're just setting up a lot of meetings and having a lot of FaceTime with the partners that we've been working with for a long time. And is this your first time at mjbizcon as an exhibitor we've exhibited twice.

Ronjini Joshua:

Oh, okay. Okay, so you guys are seasoned vet?

Max Armstrong:

We've gone through the ropes once or twice. Yeah, well, what is like kind of the anticipation of what you guys are kind of hoping to accomplish while you're here at the show? Yeah, it's really FaceTime. I mean, it's such a good place to actually get in person interactions, get quality feedback, get away from the Zoom calls a little bit, you know, all of our stuff is online and remote being a tech platform and training. So I think there's a lot of merit to actually getting to sit down and have you know, a lunch or a meal with your clients and get some dialogue where you can get real feedback, as opposed to just a quick email here and there. Yeah, so that's a great segue into learn as a as a company. But first, before we get to learn, I want to talk about you a little bit and kind of your journey, your journey into the cannabis industry. What What led you here? How did you get started? Yeah, yeah, it's, it's all about, uh, you know, exactly. And my background came from the outdoor industry. I was working for a public relations company working with a variety brands like Under Armour, Canada, and grew group. And, yeah, from the outdoor industry, I really saw the power of the influencer, there were some platforms similar to learn brands being leveraged in that industry. So when I got connected to this position, I really saw the merit in the company. And my journey for getting in the cannabis industry is I had a buddy who was doing education, specifically for Juana. So that was his title in the company. And yet, he found out about learn brands, because he was looking to push training on wanna products to the retailer selling their brand. And that's where he was exposed to our platform learn brands, which is designed to help brands educate the retailer about their products. And from the retail perspective, they're able to get all the courses for every single brand sold, sold in their stores. In one easy to use platform. Okay, so are you did you have like, how did you guys develop the platform? And where are you today? Like, how does it kind of work? Give me like a quick rundown of how everything works with training. Yeah, absolutely. So building the platform, we are built off of a foundation that's used learn. It's a learning management system that's used at a university level. So we essentially had the platform. And the whole goal is to get more and more content that makes us more valuable. So we've partnered with over 200 plus brands across 15 states right now. And we have an agency that helps these brands build and distribute their education. Okay, so looking back to one as an example, we're going to work with their creative team, their marketing team, their education team, to build a lesson that's designed around their specific product skews. And then after the budtender goes through that lesson, it's going to be interactive, they're going to engage with that content, they're going to learn every little selling point. So in a busy sales environment, they're able to talk articulately about that random product. And as a reward, they're actually going to get incentivized with a sample. Okay? Which really ties into the educational experience, being able to learn about a product but actually trying it after Yeah, recommendations off of something that they've actually had an experience with. And then after their experience with that, they can give the brand feedback based on their experience. So I'm going to now go back a little bit because you're mentioning that so like, what like I think there is a huge pain point, obviously people going to a distributor or retailer and like not knowing what to pick and the budget or knows nothing right. You know, what is the incentive for the retail shops to actually what is their incentive to implement this kind of system? Yeah, I mean, you're gonna have a more educated workforce. Yeah, the bud tender has so much influencing the consumer purchasing decisions, right? I think the stat is over 80% of the products recommended by the budtender are purchased. Right. So the budtender needs to know what they're talking about. They're like your most powerful brand ambassador. Yeah, they are the the person, the biggest influencer in that decision making process. So giving them accurate information, letting them know about the products sold in their stores, is really vital. So the retailer has a lot of incentive just for having a more educated staff. But bud tenders are going to want to work in an environment where they get to try products, too. So they're going to be able to sample their workforce, you know, and there's so much turnover in this industry. That's just another edition of value add for being in the industry, and staying with it.

Ronjini Joshua:

What is like, you know, I'm not familiar with the professional progress of a budtender. So what is the kind of like the, how do you get into by attending? And like, what is the progression of that role? Like? How, like, what exactly is the end game for that?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah, I mean, budtenders, honestly, there's so many different products out there, there's so many different positions, they're working the ranks up, you know, between the stores becoming managers, right? Oftentimes, that's a gateway into the industry as a whole. So they're gonna be working as a budtender. Maybe you transition into the brand side of things, sales, but there's so much, there's so much turnover at the position, you know, that they're going to come in and out quite often, from what we're seeing. And that's a pain point in the industry. So being able to have real time education, for those new bud tenders that are coming in, is really vital. So they can take a lesson on every single product immediately once they're hired.

Ronjini Joshua:

So that's another thing. There's so many products, like how long does it kind of go take to go through these lessons? And, and, you know, I guess you can kind of take it as you like, at your own pace at some point. But like, you know, how long does it take to go through these lessons? Typically?

Max Armstrong:

Well, we always encourage short and sweet. Yeah, there are hundreds of products and hundreds of SKUs on a dispensary shelf. So is it reasonable to expect a budtender to know your origin story, every single selling point, it is a little bit unrealistic. So we talked about short and sweet, get to the punch line. And if you are a brand, what are the five things you really want a budtender to know and a busy sales environment and push those message Those include interactivity, so they engage with those points, and then they're able to relay that information in a much better way.

Ronjini Joshua:

So what is the lesson look like? Yeah.

Max Armstrong:

So what are lessons going to look like? It's going to talk about those made yourself five points. Yeah. And we're going to work with our brands with whatever assets that they have, right? So this could be marketing material videos, audios, our system offers games in their activity and that system so they can really engage with that content? And

Ronjini Joshua:

did you send the UFC? Click Test after each one?

Max Armstrong:

Exactly. So the lesson is step one, okay. And that's gonna be the slide base presentation. And then they're going to go into a quiz, which is the proof that they retain that information. If they pass that quiz with 100%, they're going to move to the reward the sample, which can be merchandise, product samples, gift cards, whatever it is. And after they've received that reward, then they can give feedback.

Ronjini Joshua:

Okay, cool. And then typically, like, what do you like? Where do you seeing right now? Are you seeing a good response of like, people wanting to engage? And how many people have kind of pick this system up?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah, people, bud tenders love this platform. Okay, the reward is the carrot on a stick. And it's why we have the engagement that we do. Yeah, we're working with over 20,000 bud tenders right now. We have 1300 retailers signed up on the system, and 200 plus brands. And that is because the bud tenders are one they want to learn about these products, you know, they want to know what they're talking about. It helps their tips, you know, when a customer has a good experience, and they get a quality product recommendation, and helps their growth in their career and learn brands. The account stays with the user throughout the entirety of their career, okay, so they can be working for one dispensary, get all these certifications on the brand courses. And then if they choose to leave or whatever reason or want to get promoted within their own company, they say, Hey, I've got all these courses here, my certification and badges. And then as they transition to new companies, all that will stay with them. And they

Ronjini Joshua:

can show other people like oh, I've done this, I know about all these different brands. Okay, that's really cool, like, professional asset that they can carry with them. What about the brands? How did they get involved? Because I mean, I imagine every brand should have this. What are you seeing the trends being as far as like, the difficulty of getting brands on to do this kind of training? Because it feels like a whole nother set of things that for them to do, you know, a whole nother set of marketing for them to do? Absolutely. I mean, it's important,

Max Armstrong:

but training is such a burden. And we see from so many different brands, they're all in a different position, right, some more resources than others. Some have a marketing team, some have a fully dedicated education team, right. But our goal is to take one of those hats off of the many roles that they're fulfilling. We've worked with over 200 brands like we're saying, so we really understand how to build this content and our audience of the bud tender. So building the content is step one, and that's always been A barrier. And that's why we've had an in house agency to help create this content. So we can leverage the assets you already have, or we can build them from scratch for you. But then the barrier is engagement right after that. Right? Right. So in markets where we don't have much of a presence yet, it does take some buy in from the retailer, it's kind of the chicken or the egg. Does the retailer sign on first? Right brand? Right? Because from the retailer perspective, the more brands on the platform, the more incentive and value there is for them. Right. From the brand perspective, the more retailers that are on the system, the more value for them. So yeah, it's just building that community together. We leverage, you know, relationships and partnerships, referrals from all different sides. And that's where we really built our network,

Ronjini Joshua:

do like retailers kind of go in there. And like, let's see what kind of brands they have first, before we sign up to make sure that you have the brands that we carry, is that usually

Max Armstrong:

it depends on if they have training solutions already. Okay. For example, one of our first dispensaries out in Oregon chellis Farms, we didn't have much content out there, but they needed a training solution. So they bought into this platform, it is completely free for retailers to use, and said, Hey, I want all my brands to get on this. So they kind of pushed us and really kick started that market for us because they wanted their brands to utilize this tool like us.

Ronjini Joshua:

Oh, so then at that point, you guys reached out to the brands? Correct? Okay. And do you do that? Do you guys like create? I mean, obviously, like you said, a lot of people have their own teams, and everybody has a different amount of resources. But do you also have the solution to be able to create the lessons and do all that stuff? Yeah,

Max Armstrong:

absolutely. We have an in house design team. And it's a full service agency, whatever we need, if we wanted to create product images, and then you know, put animations on top of that, that are built into lessons with those major selling points that you want to include. It's very visually appealing. And yet, when our team gets our hands on these products, it really bolsters the industry as a whole in the education that they're putting out. Because we really do put a lot of energy and time and I've seen so many different brands build education.

Ronjini Joshua:

Have you guys I mean, I'm just kind of thinking about the platform. And I mom was feeling like, like, if I went to like, this is just a broad example. Like if you go into like a whole foods, and you get to see like brand information, like do you guys do any other kind of E learning about brands? And use that anywhere else?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah. The other service offerings outside of the training built by the brand? Yeah, is we do general education targeted towards bud tenders. So that's going to be information about cannabinoids, terpenes, cannabis science, how to be a bud tender courses like that. And then we're going to go into responsible vendor training, which is also hosted on the platform. And then if dispensaries are interested, we do internal training, so they can put their own HR documents onboarding process there, there. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Got it can build all that in our system as well.

Ronjini Joshua:

Okay, what is the what is? Like? Can you give us some tips how to how to be a budtender?

Max Armstrong:

On how to be a button? Yeah, it's a, it's a pharmaceutical grade product that we're working with here. Okay, so having more education is the goal, right. And if you can have quality education, every single product you're selling, you're going to be able to make better recommendations. And from there, you're going to have a much better consumer experience. And that's going to lead to growth in your position, and more tips and everything in between.

Ronjini Joshua:

So do you think I mean, obviously, it's cool for the budtenders, to be able to have the information at their fingertips, and then also, you know, be able to sample the product, but because the chemistry of cannabis is so different from person to person? How does that really like relay? You know, obviously, they want to have, like, if they have a bad experience with the product, they're not going to recommend it. So like, how does that relate? Because everybody's body chemistry reacts a little bit differently. So are those like, kind of five talking points that go to for each of these things? Yeah. And

Max Armstrong:

it's gonna be what was this brand built for? And that's just trying to message around. So if it's a lifestyle brand, you know, they're gonna push it to that type of demographic or, you know, if there's a vegan product, you know, when someone's asking for that style, you know, everybody's going to have a different effect, but there are going to be products tailored towards certain audiences. Right? And that's the budtender shop to understand.

Ronjini Joshua:

Do you think I mean, this is like kind of bad Tinder trends? But do you think there's gonna be like, a now that I'm hearing all this information that you're giving me it's like, kind of making me think though, we specialize bud tenders in different areas? And is that, is that a thing? Or do you think that's something that would happen because

Max Armstrong:

you know, it just like you're saying with brand loyalty, if they love a product, they're gonna push it over another one right there bud tenders that love concentrates. You know, they're bud tenders that love edibles, and they're going to be more specialized in that field. Well, I

Ronjini Joshua:

was even thinking further like, like, okay, let's say I'm like, I'm an athlete. I'm a health and fitness, like geek. So I'm gonna like do look, use all the products that might help my workout or help recovery or help me rest better or whatever and, and kind of focus on that segment. Yeah. Do you think that that buttoning kind of would get that niche where People will specialize. And like, I know, somebody was talking me about the other day like women's wellness. Yeah. And maybe like, senior, you know, use or something like that. So like, I don't know if that's a thing that's happening yet, but I think

Max Armstrong:

it's an absolutely thing. I mean, yeah, I'd be interested in what resonates with them. Yeah. And to be specialized and be a consultant away for any consumer that's interested in the same thing that they're, you know, yeah. Interested in, I think that's definitely gonna create a better budtender experience and push that type of messaging to the consumer. Yeah,

Ben Michaels:

I got curious. Um, so from a lot of the research that I've been doing and an understanding from people communicating that, you know, a lot of Bud is starting to gravitate being towards like 5050, almost between indica and sativa. And it is more about the cannabinoids, and terpenes individuals can personal chemistry. Does your platform trying to lean away from the whole, indica sativa? Push? Or are you still trying to foster some of that?

Max Armstrong:

No, it's, it's a really good question. We definitely I mean, high THC is, we got to get that trend out the door, we got to separate what sativa and indica actually do, and what the experience is from the plant, because, honestly, it can vary across the board. And that comes with education. So when these brands are building education on those products and the type of flower that they're selling, they need to be talking about the experience that generally is the outcome of their product. And that's exactly what we're trying to push.

Ronjini Joshua:

That's awesome. Yeah. So it's really up to the brand to deliver that content to right, like I think, depending on what brands you bring on, I mean, do you guys, I imagine you don't discriminate between brands, like you only do these kinds of brands? Because you have to as an education platform, kind of include everybody inclusivity is important, right?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah, absolutely. We are a neutral platform, we want to take on as much content as you can gather, if it's a hardware, you know, like Pax is a big partner of ours, and they're just teaching on how to use their batteries and everything in between. So yeah, anybody that's interested in pushing education that the budtender can use and leverage for, you know, selling the products in their stores is definitely what we're looking to host. And

Ronjini Joshua:

just to kind of reiterate, can you just like, emphasize, like, how important right now? I mean, I do agree, like the budtender is like the biggest influencer. So like, how important is that I feel like the budtender training has kind of now it's come to a point where people are like, Oh, God, like we have to do something. Because otherwise, it's really hard to get recognized as a brand or so many regulations, marketing is difficult. The Bunder bud tenders the guy to go to you said you had like what 20,000 bud tenders on there. Like, can anybody get on there? Even if they're not working for a retailer?

Max Armstrong:

Currently, the system is set up for retailers and industry specific, they

Ronjini Joshua:

have to kind of go through the retailer to get there. Yep. And

Max Armstrong:

that's what your catalog is going to be based around. So the retailer has the decision to pick which courses they want their bud tenders to have access to. Okay, so based on the company, you work for us what your catalogue is gonna look like. Okay, yep.

Ben Michaels:

Do you find any what I find really interesting is with with the budtender. It's like they need this education, because that's one of those. I'll stop going to a dispensary, right? If they tell me just you know what they smoked last week? And that's what, but like, a lot of them, you know, we're trying to Exactly, yeah, but a lot of them are also in a situation of like pushing, whatever, you know, their GM, once somebody's like, hey, we need to get this wherever you get it. Yeah, the sentence, is there anything that the program is doing to kind of encourage, you know, absolute, you know, education and getting the absolute right product into their hand versus what's going to get them? You know, the the PlayStation five at the end of the month? Yeah.

Max Armstrong:

You know, there's going to be different incentive programs between retailers. And what we're doing is creating an equal playing field for all brands to compete, right. So may the best brand win is really what it comes down to. And if you have a great product, and the budtender has the chance to sample that product, they're going to decide, dictate what's the best, and they're going to push that product. So we're creating this playing field where they have the opportunity to sample every single brand. And the brands that honestly push more samples and have more face time and are constantly updating their education are the ones that the bud tenders are gonna recognize boast. And those are the ones that are going to win in the end.

Ronjini Joshua:

Yeah. No, that's a good point smart. Is there anything on the platform that we did not talk about? Because I want to make sure that we cover everything that's on this, this really cool platform?

Max Armstrong:

Yeah, I mean, I would say one thing that's really important with the system is the consistent messaging across state lines, right? You're going to want to have a consumer have the same experience with say, Achieva, choosing Colorado as Massachusetts, right. So if you're pushing consistent education, and giving the same experience for the bud tender that they have here in Colorado and Massachusetts, that's going to create more brand loyalty. And as you start to expand and go into more states, you're going to have a much bigger market share across the US. So I think it's it's messaging and having real time updates to your content are two things that brands need to leverage more.

Ronjini Joshua:

That's funny that you say that because it's the same in marketing and PR, right? Like you have to have consistent messaging saying the same thing because they resonates better. Right. So I mean, yeah, that's a good lesson for everybody. Well, thank you so much for joining us in the greenroom will definitely keep in touch and as you guys launch new brands and stuff, we'd love to connect with you again in the future.

Max Armstrong:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on.

Ronjini Joshua:

Thanks, Max. Cheers. The Green Room podcast is brought to life by green seed PR, cannabis green tech focused PR agency, and a dedicated production team of editors mixers and show Booker's. A huge thank you to the vessel team for providing their studio for our recordings. Don't forget to subscribe and share the greenroom podcast with friends, colleagues and family. That way you'll never miss an episode and we can keep the lights on. If you're feeling extra generous. Please leave us review on favorite podcast listening platform. You can also find us on Instagram at green seed PR and live video versions of all of our podcasts on YouTube. Would you like to be on the guest on the show? Or do you have a great guest referral? Awesome. Submit your guests at Green cpr.com/the-green-route Thanks for listening and be well