.jpg)
The Green Room Podcast
The Green Room Podcast
Ep 32: Why medical cannabis matters & how it can help traumatic brain injuries. An interview w/ Nikki Lawley, Cannabis Ambassador
Ok I don’t want to say too much about Nikki Lawley before we jump into the interview, but this was kind of out of the normal realm of interviews for us. The reason that we wanted to talk to Nikki is because she is really a good example of why Cannabis needs to be legalized and the challenges the criminalization of cannabis has brought to people who simply need to use it as medicine, kind of a fuel for why the cannabis industry needs to move forward.
Before we jump into it we would like to give a shout out to:
Vessel Brand
Camino innovative cannabis confections
Nikki & the Plant
Nikkiandtheplant.org
Nikki is passionate and infinitely interested in the benefits of cannabis, many of which are still being researched. She is determined to help patients find access to medical cannabis products that provide them relief, in the hopes that no one has to suffer what she has. Nikki commented, "cannabis should be offered as a treatment for TBI / Concussion symptoms"
https://www.instagram.com/nikkiandtheplant/
Nikki and the Plant (facebook.com)
Okay, I don't want to say too much about this, this interview with Nikki before we jump into the interview, but it was kind of out of the normal perspective of interviews for us. Mostly because we've been doing a lot of business and cannabis interviews. And this was different. I mean, the reason I really wanted to talk to her, she's a medical patient, right. But I feel like it really sets the stage of why cannabis is so important, why it needs to be legalized and decriminalized, and what it's done for just people, right, you know, and in a positive way, and how people just some people just need to literally just use it for medicine on a regular basis. And she's like, a really great example of like, what the challenges that the that the government has put on people who need it for medicine, right. And it's more interesting to because she comes from a medical professional background who now uses medical marijuana, right? Totally, totally. Yeah. She's, that's what I like about she's very smart. And this is a really smart interview, talking about her experience. So before we jump into that interview, Sheldon, though, what's your notable mentioned?
Sheldon:vessel
Ronjini Joshua:Since we've been recording at vessel, I have to say it's, it's quickly become one of my favorite brands, we were lucky enough to get some of their vape pens, which are really impressive, because their ergonomic design, it's, it's, it feels like it's supposed to be in your hand like, yeah, it's, it's well, and we've talked to James so much about natural products and how he's designed him with that, you know, everything is user experience, from the way it looks to the way it feels in your hand to the actual smoking experience, that they're really fantastic. I'm not even a person who vapes and I love it. I just want to have one just to have it. Yeah, but you know, my products get stolen at home. So
Unknown:now I'm gonna start stealing basically the chain is gonna be you get it, your husband steals it, I steal it from you. And that's that's the chain of things. But vessel they have great CBD based vapes that are derived from some of the most classic strains and I absolutely love the products from from start to finish. They have a tropical mist or something one that is so good. I've tried that one a few times. Oh, the flavors are incredible. The flavors are really nice. They're super bomb. Yeah. Great. So let's get into our interview with Nikki Lawley. Hello. Our guest today is Nikki Lawley, a former nurse and traumatic brain injury survivor as well as combat cannabis ambassador. Her story is quite a wild ride. And she's literally the poster child of why medical cannabis works and the healing powers of this magical flower. I don't want to mess up her story. So we'll let Nikki tell it. Hi, Nikki, thank you for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited.
Nikki Lawley:It's been a wild ride, to say the least. Cannabis was something that I used as a recreational substance prior to my injury. It was not something that I use daily. It was something that was you know, we're out at a party. Somebody has some great, let's try it. I was never like anti cannabis. Let's put it that way. But I was working as a pediatric nurse here in Buffalo, New York. And just like any other day, it was a long day, a 12 hour day and a child didn't want a vaccine. I worked in a pediatric office. And it's a pretty common problem. And this particular day, this child was exceptionally combative. And I was called in to help assist administer this vaccine. And the kid was about 10 years old about my size and in a split second My life changed. Well, he hit me frontally and I bounced off of a plaster wall and then back into his head. When that happened, light kind of stopped for me. It ended up resulting in a mild traumatic brain injury, aka a concussion. We can call this post concussion syndrome, but we're way past that level. Then now struggling with this for about four years. 10 1116 was the day my life changed, and I didn't understand it. Um, yeah, so I was in pediatrics. Yes. Children got concussions all the time, but they're better quick. It usually is a few days of breast return them to sports. They're a little bit more nimble. Yeah. Yeah, packs. This was sort of like a linebacker Kinda coming out a full course of a 10. So it was a pretty irregular scenario in our office. I mean, not your regular, there's just it happens so quick Yeah, that no one was expecting it. And it was not a quick recovery. The child ended up getting the vaccine, but immediately after there was complete left arm paralysis and numbness and tingling, and I still don't have full function back. But what happened was my neck became in a line misaligned. And so I have what's known as cervical instability, as well as the traumatic brain injuries. So it's a little more complicated than just a little bump on the head. Yeah. And I expected to be better I read right away to urgent care, I was expecting to be off of work a couple days and right back at it. And that was not the case. Immediately, I was put on a host of medications that varied from opiates, to muscle relaxers to benzos, to antidepressants. The list went on and on about 60 different drugs were tried over the period of several years. Well, and cannabis was never offered as like, Hey, have you ever thought of medical cannabis? Or maybe this could help you? Right? I wasn't medicating at the time. Because as we all heard in the media, cannabis fries your brain. So I mean, my brain kind of was of that mentality, you know, you use cannabis to kind of chill out not to help you, especially with a head injury, right. So I quit. I found out that there were not really good resources out there. For alternative treatments. I began joining all kinds of like Facebook groups and struggling to get a good diagnosis. I became a victim of the worker's compensation system. What a patient unfriendly system that is basically, an insurance company designed to not pay any of your benefits or to minimize your injuries so that you're can report back to work. And I have been a hard worker all my life. So this was not something I was trying to get out of, or anything like them. Exactly, yeah. I ended up spending several 1000s of dollars, trying to find an accurate diagnosis, traveling to Canada to Florida, to several places in the United States to just try and get answers and get the best care. Because I could tell my brain just wasn't connecting the dots. And I was told I was crazy. I went from being a respected professional on the same level as other doctors and other nurses to now. Yeah, this girl, she had a head injury six months ago, but there's no way she still has symptoms. And it's all in her head. It's anxiety and depression and being told that like you really lose yourself, you've kind of wonder like, well, is it me? Yeah, it really me. And like, do I just know too much about the medical system? And am I just too familiar like what's going on? Right? And it took 18 months, but I finally found a doctor that diagnosed the cervical instability and explained why my headaches never got better. Why my cognitive brain pieces don't work the way that they always in history have. So I discovered cannabis, totally by accident. I was actually because of all the medications I was on I would became suicidal. I don't say this lightly or casually because it was an incredibly dark, scary, hopeless kind of setting and my husband in a desperate effort to help me cheer me up perk me up from this despair and depression and dark place. I mean, I wasn't getting out of bed. Self Care What was that? Yet I had to keep going to all these doctor appointments to prove that I'm injured but yet I didn't want to get out of bed. And one of particular drugs I was on really was adverse. And I was contemplating my deaths during this vacation that my husband tried to take me on to get my mind out of this hole, but because these doctors keep saying there's nothing wrong with your wife and we can't find anything on her MRIs. And yet, he knew obviously something was wrong, but just my husband's a fixer, so he wanted to fix me. Duct Tape wasn't going to do it this time. So But we try that really is the moment that I was in this Hotel in Las Vegas. I was looking down at the street, and I was not up very high. And I was trying to figure out how to kill myself. While I wasn't high enough, and so I was this billboard came perusing by saying get your medical marijuana card and Nevada today. And I was like, Yeah, okay, that's a good idea for a brain injury. Yeah. All right. But then I just kind of forgot about it. And then like, two minutes later, it comes back the other way. And on the other side, it's got a big thing with this. I don't know. It was like a seductive, almost picture, teacher medical marijuana card. And I was like, Oh, yeah, that's cute. But I said something when my husband came back to the room, and he's like, let's go get it. You smoke pot. Let's see what it's all about. Maybe this can help you. And I said and yet no. But eventually we ended up doing it. And I go, and it was a seamless, painless process, until I got to the dispensary. Once I got to the dispensary, it was like, oh, em, gee, this is like next level. products, names, things. everything you can imagine and regular cannabis dispensary. And it was so overwhelming to the point where I had no idea. And I was so fortunate that there was a, I don't know, 2122 year old kid that was willing to listen to me. And I spent pretty much the max you could spend in Nevada, that day, trying like all different kinds of products from gummies, to tinctures to pills to lozenges to flower. And ultimately, it was not a cure all that day. It's not like I found the plant that day. And now everything is rosy, beautiful and perfect. Because Nevada's system is very different than New York's system. And it is completely different in the point that I didn't have access. When I came back to New York. Of course, of course, the canvas that the guy recommended in Nevada was it got me off the ledge, it was like a really heavy sedating kind of terpene profile, that light was rich and myrcene. And for me, I've learned that is not my preferred terpene at this point. But it took years of strain trying and trying so many different formulations cultivars. And when I came back to New York, and I didn't have medical cannabis as an option, I was like, Well, what am I going to do now? I finally find something that like, sort of made me not happy, but not that devastating. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, but now I can't even access it here. So then became the journey of finding plant medicine locally. And I can assure you what was in Nevada was not what is in Buffalo, New York. It is not the same quality. And you're relying on Johnny from the bar nose, gimme from somebody on goal, and you end up with a bag of God knows what I mean, it's cannabis, but you have no idea what his or her profile is, what strength it is, if it's like him, you know, you really have no idea because there's no testing on it. Right. So it was like sort of disheartening, because, you know, I kind of got to this little bit of hope. And then all of a sudden, I have nothing to access. So located geographically, Buffalo, New York is very close to the Canadian border. And Niagara Falls, Ontario is about 15 minutes away. And I basically learned all about cannabis in Canada, because they had access to a full medical system as well as eventually a recreational system. I could not bring my cannabis home. But I had lots of great friends and people in the medical cannabis industry that were absolutely instrumental on me finding the right terpenes and the right strains and what was effective compared to just Johnny's from down the street Johnny and Jimmy, our friends, Johnny, Jimmy. Yeah, exactly. And it was really cool because I learned what really worked for me. And when you find a game changing culture bar, I have like three that have really changed my life significantly when I have them. And it's been a repeated consistent process even though it's at different times. And I find that certain cultivars rich and laminating and pining are what really works for me. And my brain injury basically is like a unfragmented harddrive, from the 90s when we used to have to defrag our hard drive, right? My brain now is just like that. It's constant. messed up, it's there, nothing connects. So cannabis kind of allows that connection to happen. It's like fills in the gaps. So it's like a automatic defrag or as soon as I smoke cannabis, but it only lasts for about two hours, right. That's the downside. I've learned that. edibles, tinctures, gummies, I have a unique digestive system. And unfortunately, the only way I feel the true medicated effects of cannabis is to smoke it. I have tried countless formulations, and I've had weight loss surgery and don't have a gallbladder. So those two things combined is what has been explained as to why I don't digest it yielded symptoms. Yeah. feel the effects of cannabis. Wow. Did you have a question? Well, I was just curious, more concretely, what are some of the things that you were having trouble processing, and then when you smoke weed, what it's now easier. So my executive function, because of where I was hit, my frontal lobe was really affected, which regulates your mood, your being able to complete tasks. So the inability to complete tasks is a huge struggle. And so when I have the right cannabis, I complete tasks. So that's a really easy explanation of something that cannabis helps the pain instead of it being a seven out of 10 every day, it becomes like a three or four out of 10. So I mean, that's a huge difference in function versus not, my quality of life is so improved with this plant, and the fact that was never ever offered as an option, or treatment is frightening. You know, I mean, I was ready to kill myself, guys. And that's not something that anyone should have to get to before they find the right medicine. Well, as a nurse, I mean, obviously, you know, as a former nurse, you know, kind of like the way that medicine is prescribed? And do you have any insight? And have you kind of figured out why it wasn't offered to you? I mean, obviously, it's federally legal. So that's a that's a big issue. But as a plant medicine, and you know, I don't know if you tried Eastern medicine an hour at all during your process, but like, you know, what, what are the real like, challenges of getting this? Not prescribed, but I guess recommended or suggested as a medicine. So New York didn't have chronic pain on its diagnosis. Oh, come on. So initially, it wasn't even offered in my state. Now. Currently, we do have chronic pain and PTSD as qualifying conditions. But early on, your regardless of it being offered or not, you literally are prescribed a pill to combat the symptoms of the pill they just gave you, right? It's just a journey of symptoms, and pills and pills and pills and pills. And it didn't matter if it was a worker's comp doctor, it didn't matter if it was, well, they're kind of majority of the more doctors because that's all they would pay for. Right. But everyone just wants pills and procedures and drugs and Botox and I Bs and since my injury I've had like, severe severe reactions to a lot of these medications. Things that I've always used in the past, now all of a sudden, I can't take anymore. like going to the dentist, I have to be put out for general anesthesia. Because light again novocaine any of the cane, no mean drugs, topical anesthetics, I go into anaphylactic shock from. So I've obviously had dental work all my life. And now all of a sudden, I can't anymore. And it's a really scary situation when you go into anaphylaxis, especially at a dentist's office that like is illiquid. Yeah, they're not they're not prepared. They're not prepared for that. Yeah, absolutely. I was Like, you know, I wake up I can't breathe are literally like, oh, what do we do? And I'm like epi pen. Yeah. My verbs you know, and luckily I have one. Yeah, but it's just people don't understand drugs, different supplements Different people have different reactions to things. Yeah, cannabis has risks too. If you have glaucoma, the last thing you should have uses CBD, you need THC. If you have a clotting disorder and you're on blood thinners, you do not want to have CBD running through your system. Many people poopoo smoking, but honestly, it's the least potential interaction of someone having an adverse effect, meaning smoking is in and out within three hours. So even in the most significant cases, when someone ingests it, that can be a magic carpet ride for like eight hours, 12 hours. You know, it can be a very unique experience for different individuals, especially those that have raw Endocannabinoid systems that have never used the plant. We talked about dosing and going low and going slow. I can't scream that from the rooftops loud enough. Is had an adverse reaction, and I watched it, it is not cool. Green out is a real thing. I've learned so much since you know exploring the plant medicine and you know, I read and try and find out as much as I can from accurate sources. And I can look I can honestly say CBD will counteract the effects of CBD or THC almost instantly. We've thought, right, Sheldon? Yeah, we had a we had an incident, you know, one of our podcasts where we had to do a little recuperating quickly. It's so cool that like, it's truly an antidote. It's truly a potential solution. And I didn't really understand that. And whenever you're trying THC for the first time, I highly recommend having a vape on hand. Just CBD, just in case just in case. Like it's like having an epi pen and your purse. CLAY Yes, yes. Yes. Exactly. And like, I didn't understand that, you know, I can eat a million gummies and feel nothing. Yeah, you know, I literally can eat 1000 milligrams of an edible and feel nothing other than maybe a little nauseous. But that's usually from the like oils and stuff. From the from the actual food. Yes, yeah, I need that. So yeah, I really can like I'm not just saying that, like tested medical grade cannabis. So it's really crazy that my system is so unique like that. And then I can watch somebody totally green out on a 10 milligram one to one. So I am not the normal case. Like don't use me as your you know, standard. Yeah. You're trying cannabis like definitely don't start at 1000 milligrams for sure. You know, I can't say that out loud it up. Yeah. But yeah, cannabis has absolutely improved my quality of life to the point where I can't work like full time unless I work for a place that has a very flexible medicating policy. True because I I truly Medicaid all day long and not I never get high. I don't even know what high feels like. Because the level of cannabinoids running through my system is just pretty consistent. Yeah. Now we have the New York State MediCal program that has ground flour. I just got some last night and it's so exciting to have tested our New York State I can't even like say I mean, people in California people in Colorado, you know, I feel your pain. I'm sorry. You just can't even relate. Because it's so different. I mean, it's like the truly an alcohol kind of prohibition kind of thing. It's my medicine, so I shouldn't be penalized for using my medicine. And, you know, one of the things I really found since I've been become a patient now for three years has been where everywhere I stay, I have to make sure that they allow medical cannabis that there's reciprocity, or there's rec cannabis so I can get my medicine going to Florida. They don't offer reciprocity So for me to go to Florida, it's sort of scary. You know, I mean, yes. Do I know people in Florida? Can I get cannabis from you know, right, illicit markable 100%. But that's not what I really want. I want to know what I'm using is what I want to use, because it's a medical thing for me. Yeah, not about getting high. It's about medicine. Well, so you have a lot of experience with trying to figure out what works for you What have been the best sources of education for you when it comes to figuring this out. Because you know, a lot of the people that were talking to their professionals in the industry, were talking about normalizing cannabis in the consumer market, and people just not knowing what's, what's out there. Or, like you had mentioned, like, you have that one bad experience. And then you're like, well, I don't want to try it anymore. But there's so many varieties that you can try. And you've obviously done a lot of research. So how do you find the information that you need to try the next thing or to try something new? It's a mystery. I'll be honest, it's not been an easy transition. It truly is. Experiment. And then learning. So I have like a whole list, like a spreadsheet. Well, diary, your cannabis day. Yeah, I do. And it's Excuse me, I'm gonna sneeze? Of course, not now. Sorry. But as far as the stream diary, I'm really learning certain kind of almost classes of names seem to work. And it's okay.
Ronjini Joshua:Yeah, that makes sense.
Nikki Lawley:Like,Durbin poison mixed with something. So it's like Durban, Thai, that's an indicator, it will have some of the properties I'm better than that are beneficial, like, Durban poison is a good stream for me, usually, but it can kick up the anxiety. So having a balanced ratio of say, Durban and something that's a little more, I hate the term indika. And so tiva and hybrid, I just, we need to get away from those. But the, you know, it's really hard to change that perception. Yeah, it's. So for those that need the indicators to see what kind of classification of the indicators for me, they really do mean, in the couch, like, usually they are. ribbon immersing, like the terpene is really high in those and I can't function. I mean, I just literally can't swim there. Yeah, I found like, Sour Diesel and derivatives with Sour Diesel are pretty good. Blue dreams, okay, it's definitely not in my top, top ones. But again, it's based on where you get it to, unfortunately, there's no standardization of testing, which is why our gisel in Canada and New York and Nevada, you are not going to have the exact same test results. And so you have no idea until you actually experience the product. So when you ask where to find the best information, you hope that you're getting it from a registered organization, or licensed producer that has what's known as co A's or certificate of analysis on hand that you can actually look at. But look at the batch date, look at the date, it was issued, because that's a huge variance between harvests and between crops, and it's a plant guys. So it's not like a pill that we can say, we need 250 milligrams of ibuprofen in this and it'll be called Advil, there's nothing like that in cannabis, we keep trying to isolate compounds from it. But what it's doing is it's actually often disqualifying or discrediting the whole plant. And when we're isolating these compounds, that's not what nature intended. They don't mean just part of it. Yeah. They didn't mean for that to happen, right. And the whole plant is what I need. And so when we keep Miss marketing and Miss guiding people, it's not helping the industry, it might make you a few quick bucks. But if you're using an isolated compound, people are going to find real quick, it might work a few days, a few weeks, but real quick, you're not going to get a repeat sale. They're not going to notice enough difference to spend that 100 bucks again, and so then they're gonna say they tried and it didn't work didn't work. Well, well. What are you looking for? You just mentioned like you're looking for the batch date and things like that. What are those numbers that you're looking at when you're making that decision. Are you looking for the content of THC versus CBD? Like, what are those little measurements that you're looking at? Sure. So every state again has different measurements. So there's not a true like, key I can give you here but you know, yes, THC and CBD percent is important but I'm actually more looking at the terpenes and minor cannabinoids that are present, the higher the percentage of those terpenes is what I find. I judge my cannabis experience on so knowing exactly what the actual terpene names are not tiny. But actually alpha pining and beta pining. Okay, I need to know the difference. And I can feel the difference. So I don't want to hear the citrusy shit, you know. Be tell me it's lemonade. Tell me. No, I don't want to know what's hot. Yeah, I want to mersing
Ronjini Joshua:Well, and I think that's that's a really good point is like, let's just use the right words for everything. So it's not confusing or like, or you're not. It's like slang. It's like weed slang and like you just use the right word, you know? centigrade. Yeah, that way it stands that way. It's like some kind of evidence not a standard, but it's some kind of, like, meme nomenclature that everybody can follow.
Nikki Lawley:Right? Right. Some of the best books I've read on cannabis, like the medical cannabis primer by Ruth Fisher,
Ronjini Joshua:okay.
Nikki Lawley:was my best like beginner how to cannabis. It's broken up in a way that I can understand it. So since my brain injury, I can't like read novels anymore. So someone's book like, you know, I'm not picking on an author here at all. But let's just say, you know, Dr. Oz is books that just has, you know, words is not going to work for me. Right, right. Ruth Fisher's book is, Ruth's book is full of pictures, graphs, charts, and understanding. And I use it so much for a reference, that there's so many great sources of information in that the woman's guide to cannabis by Nikki for that was like my first baby book I ever read since my brain injury. And it was with the help of cannabis that I was able to actually complete the book. Like Ruth's book, yes, you could read it cover to cover, but it's for me, it's more of a constant reference piece, a reference guide. Yeah, that's nice. I mean, it's good to have something like that, especially as impatient. You know, you can be like, Oh, wait, what was that again? or What does this do? or? Yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. Well, okay. So one of the things that you had brought up was brought up, I can speak English. Or just, you know, we talked about pills a little bit, and like, how you were prescribed all these pills. And eventually, I mean, I think we've talked to a lot of people who are doing extraction and things like that. And, you know, when it becomes federally legal, the pharmaceutical industry is gonna want to capitalize and start integrating some of those extractions into pills, like, what are your thoughts around, like the commercialization and like the, I guess, commoditization, actually of, of cannabis into a manufactured drug versus like what you said, like the natural plant and the flower? I mean, it's great, because then I think people will be a little bit more open to it. But what do you what do you think of that overall? removing the stigma is critical to the success of this plant. So is it going to take some people that we don't really agree with you can come into this industry and be accepting of them? Yes, we can educate them. The Legacy market is such an important player that gets forgotten in the corporate green structure, whether it's pharmaceuticals, whether it's whatever it is, and those kinds of the ones that have brought this plant to the people. So it's critical that their voices heard and that their expertise, okay, maybe they don't, they're not suits, and maybe they don't write business plans. But Holy shit, look at their distribution network, like they worked underground with this amazing distribution network. Why would you not want that as a suit that experience Who cares if they have a PhD after their name? It's about experience and real life experience, and pharmaceutical industries and the corporate cannabis world needs to understand patients, the ones who actually use the products, you guys need to start listening to them, because at the end of the day, we're the experts. Your petri dish trials and your petri dish. perfect conditions are not real life, right? That's not how it really works. You're taking this control model of mice or people that is not really like everyday humans and you're making this pseudo condition, you know, this perfect little world for these test results and you're finding, for instance, the Mississippi study for veterans, right? They said smoking cannabis was effective. They had to use the specific cannabis out of the University of Mississippi that basically was crappy health. And it had very little THC in it. It had very little and so the results were absolutely poor. They didn't find relief. Well. What you didn't hear is it was crappy cannabis. It was completely not real world cannabis. Right, like, so we need to bring reality is clinical trials. We need to allow people to have voices and I feel that removing the stigma is key. So obviously when GW Pharma, obviously, you know, brought the epidiolex and the Sativex into the world. That helped dramatically. Charlotte's Web and Charlotte Beebe and her story. You know, we focused on CBD because that's legal. This point 3% crap. Yeah, is really a BS thing that the government just pulled out their butts. To say, this is how and this is marijuana. Right? And it's the same plant you guys. It's like I it blows my mind. Yeah, the less THC that you have in the plant makes it so cheap, CBD dominant. It doesn't Yeah, get help, right? Like, people do not understand that. And everybody tries to make CBD, this true panacea of bliss. And we need to realize it's an entourage other components. You can make a pill or make formulations with whole plants. You just have to find the consistent genetics and the consistent crop and you know, there's great forms of administration like in Canada, they have these cool things like Listerine strips, right? The the rapid acting, fast onset, there's microdose, you know, chewable like cannabis like strips. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'd like Listerine. Yeah, of course. No. Okay. Got a cannabis delivery. All right, cool. Yes, super cool. And I think that's the way of the future and that's going to help remove the stigma. My passion is consumption and education and helping people that don't know anything about cannabis like I didn't and, you know, have an immersion experience and have teach them what the plan is, you know, like, look at a real cannabis plant and look at a real hemp plant. Yeah, have one in, in side by side. And once you see the difference between a industrial hemp plant and a medical cannabis plant, you will see such a dramatic difference and you'll understand completely why it costs so much to extract hemp CBD from the plant compared to a medical high CBD dominant marijuana plant. You need less a lot less plant when you're using a medical cannabis medical marijuana plant compared to a CBD industrial hemp plant. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. There's, you know, hemp is designed or fibers and seeds, not smoking. Right, not medicating it, but because of this little point 3% thing is why CBD is so talked about and accepted. I can't tell you how many doctors say well, if you use C CBD, that's fine. That's medicinal. But if you use THC that's not medicinal. And that is there's nothing further from the truth. If you send the medical cannabis expert in western New York, and he also said, If you don't, if you smoke, your medicine, you're just doing it to get high, especially with THC. And I said, But Doctor, I don't get high. I mean, I went head to head with him, not as patient so. But it was mind blowing to me how you can be the expert in this area. As a doctor, you can you can you should know how various delivery of medication can affect people differently, like bloodstream versus inhalation versus sublingual or whatever. I mean, they should know that I feel like they should.
Ronjini Joshua:Or he's, or he's just doing it to be called the, you know, expert. You know, maybe he's not really that expert. I think
Nikki Lawley:Because he may have his own product line that is probably bigger part of it, probably marketing.
Ronjini Joshua:Marketing. Well, okay, so there's a couple of questions I have, but I want to start somewhere, I'm going to start at the the whole idea of like, okay, so you lived, you live in New York, obviously was not legal in New York till very recently. So. And you had mentioned to me on our call before that, you know, you had to travel back and forth to Canada. And that was a big issue, right, access is a huge issue. And right now, people are still gonna have these issues of access. So I'm like, Can you just tell us a little bit about, like that challenge? And kind of, if you found any ways to circumvent that as a medical patient, you know?
Nikki Lawley:Sure. So I actually had a storage unit in Canada, that I would keep my medical cannabis at, as was an amazing idea. And it worked great. And I have so many friends in Canada, that I would literally spend the night spend a few nights spend a week spend or two weeks, and I would medicate. And then I'd have to come home to my state. Without it, you know, and I mean, so it's like, I constantly have this carrot dangling in front of me of happiness and joy going to Canada. And then coming home. It's like, you know, you don't even want to come home. You just want to stay where your quality of life is right right now the pandemic crushed my access crushed it. The border closed the end of March last year, and it's so close. So funny story, my storage unit called and said, Miss Lawley, we can't rent any more units in your building. And I said Why? The stench of the medic of the cannabis coming out of your locker is prohibiting us from renting any other units? Can we double bagging them? Like course. But I mean, it's crazy. That was my work around. Going to a dispensary every time you cross into Canada can get exceptionally expensive. Sure, um, I actually have medical patients in Canada that get it right from the producer. And then I get it right from the producer without the extra retail, right. costs and things. So that was a huge workaround. That worked great. But now it's sort of crazy, because I've had issues crossing. I had less than gram of cannabis in my car. And it was it kind of fell between the seats, the fatal hole death. And a dog found the cannabis during secondary inspection. Oh, well, what it's done is gives me a education opportunity for the next seven years to educate the Border Patrol because I have to be forced into secondary inspection. Every time they like tear apart my car. Oh, wow. Wow. lasts for less than a gram of cannabis. Yeah. And the PTSD experiment, you know, provoking experience every time is just huge. Yeah. During one of the crosses, the guy says, when's the last time you used cannabis? I said a couple hours ago. He said, Oh, so you're admitting you're high. And I said, No, I'm not high at all. What are you talking about? I'm a medical patient. It's like, That doesn't matter. You just told me you smoked two hours ago. And I said, I medicated Yes. And he said, Well, now we can send you to the Ontario Provincial Police and get your blood drawn. And if you're over two nanograms, which let me tell you guys two nanograms is enough. I was gonna say nanograms That sounds very small. That sounds very like nano level tiny amount. And I'm a medical patient. I'll never pass that test. Right. And I'm explaining that to him. And he said, But you told me you're high. I said I did not tell you I was high. I told you I consume cannabis. You asked me when I consumed it. And I told you two hours ago before I came here. Yeah, it is. But you're driving impaired. And it was just this huge vacuum of war. And the worst day of my life crossing. It was horrible. I was like, getting all flustered and any medication I had in my system for this. Well, God Yeah. Questioning really major Hi, come down if you had one. And so then all my brain injury symptoms, like started to come to a peak, you know, slurring words. Can't find words the whole I mean, I'd never like I looked I then like once Yeah, are you kidding me and started like doing that. I mean, I feel my heart just as I'm sharing that story, just racing from it, right. Yeah. It was such a horrible experience. Right and, up until then, I'd had pretty much relatively normal casual talks about the plant and well Why are you being stopped now? Because I got caught with less than a gram of cannabis five days before legalization. Oh, okay. Well, that still means we still have to check him like bringing cannabis to your country would be like bringing my own sandwich to a buffet. Yeah. There's no point, right? Think about that. Yeah. Like, I could go to a retail store within two minutes. Why would I ever bring crappy weed from New York? Yeah. Okay. It makes zero sense. Zero. I could understand. coming the other way. But this way abs? Yeah, no. Yeah. So ever since then. I've like kind of shared with medical patients. Don't be honest. Because I was. Yeah. Look what happened to me. Yeah. You know, it's scary. I mean, I don't want to lie. Yeah. I mean, I'm using this. Like, I actually wrote after this experience, I wrote to the Niagara Provincial Police. And I said, Look, if you guys ever do studies, or you need check in impaired medical patient, I am your girl. Yeah, I would love to take part in that kind of test. Because I can tell you flat out you will be so happy I medicated compared to when I didn't Medicaid. I'm telling you right now, you do not want unmedicated Nikki behind the wheel? Because it's just not safe. Yeah. Truly? Yeah.
Sheldon:No. Are you working with any research groups to document your findings and use that for future education for others?
Nikki Lawley:No, I haven't found anyone but really wants to take that on. But yeah, not bad idea. Yeah. Good idea shall.
Sheldon:Even in some of your earlier conversation, one of the things that people don't talk about often is the effects of different terpenes. And you adding that to the conversation and experiencing it directly, is honestly part of the for the for running, research for cannabis. So you're in an exciting position.
Nikki Lawley:New York is an exciting position, for sure. I mean, I'm really hoping that we get, you know, some real, diverse and unique companies coming into the space that can bring unique delivery systems that we can have a real medical system. Every state that's gone wreck, from medical has noticed a huge drop in the medical patients compared to the wreck. And I fear that will happen in New York. People that are using it recreationally or for adult use, are still self medicating. You know, of course, of course. And why are we saying that? You know, and I say, right, I think there's a huge stigma associated with this. I had a woman over a few nights ago. And she her son is a patient, medical patient. And he you can tell really wants to try it and do things and so a friend of ours has make some lemonade and you know, gave her some of that and it's worked well for her. But she's like, I can't smoke it. I just can't i can't go to a hotel. I can't people can't smell me if things like I mean I if I ever got drug tested, I mean I lose my job. Well, that's Yeah, that's the huge stigma, right? That we all have. I mean, we have that about everything. I feel like every everything has something connected to it. And people are so judgmental. So our, and smoking this plant the judgment that I've received is so uncool. And just because combustion works better for me, yeah, is not the risks that I get from combustion, compared to the quality of life I received. far outweigh, I mean, yeah, any risk of lung cancer lung issues, is completely mitigated by the benefit and the happiness and the genuine joy that I can now experience because of this plant. I mean, some risks are worth it, right? And even like, even if we listen to all these, like,
Ronjini Joshua:I find it so funny people forget like always, I always find it entertaining when I hear like a pharmaceutical commercial. And then Lino everyone's like, so happy and joyous. And at the end, they do the disclaimer of like, Oh, you might have like, you know, your bowels might desenvolver or whatever, like, crazy, right? Like you might suffer a stroke. You're like, wait a minute What?
Nikki Lawley:word anaphylaxis? Yes. Yes, I get it. Why are we saying okay, you might sleep too much you might get the munchies, there is a possible You can green out. But if you've got CBD beside you and you're feeling a little too high, we can combat that, right? Get to the full green, right?
Ronjini Joshua:So, every everything should have a disclaimer, I don't know why people are so like, I mean, we all know, we've all done something that needs a disclaimer and has to have some kind of remedy to it. So I think I think that's one big thing is like, just because, you know, you have a bad experience doesn't mean everything's bad. And just because it may lead to like, like, you're talking about all the different plants and terpenes that you've tried. I mean, that's, I think that's one thing is like, very difficult. We spoke to a chemist, you know, a couple months ago, and she was just saying, like, you know, this is one of those things where it affects everyone's body chemistry so differently. So you really have to be open to understanding that. And so I think that's part of the education component. You know, there's people who are allergic to alcohol, there's people, you know, who can't do certain things. I think it's just like human nature. People just have to get it like get with the program.
Nikki Lawley:Couldn't agree more. Yeah. program will go ahead and willing to experiment. Yeah. willing to try work with somebody that does know the plant, you know, I mean, my education didn't come from any kind of formal schooling. And it came from trying and trying to understand and reading, talking learning. It did not just happen via osmosis. Yeah. So, you know, changing your whole mindset and being open to change. You know, if I came at cannabis, like I did, pretty much every other drug I tried by the end there, of the pile of drugs, it was like, why am I even filling this? I don't want to take it, right. Yeah, it was so so much money. And they, you know, you don't realize all the side effects and all the negative shit. That just happens because of the side effects of different drugs interacting differently. Your body interacts with different chemical compounds differently. So it only makes sense cannabis is the same, right? And I didn't learn about the endocannabinoid system in nursing school. No. And so we talk about that to other medical professionals that aren't aware of cannabis. They're sort of like the right. What do you smoke and keep smoking that? You know, there's no thing endocannabinoid system? Yeah, but there really is there really is. The lock and key thing is real. And building those receptors is kind of what is the whole key and one strain sometimes will not do it, you need multiple chemo bars to try and fill those receptors in the best way, in my experience, and I feel that the more we can be transparent with our labeling, and share, you know, the process of how they're extracting. And is it like co2? Or is it alcohol, you know, these are different extraction methods, people can react to differently as well. And, you know, weed is a plant, right? So if you have a lot of environmental allergies, it's sort of similar in from the standpoint of terpenes are essential oils. So if you have a severe allergy to pine trees, hinein might not be the best for you. Right? And, and I mean, I experienced that often. And I'm allergic to so many things. Even at small percentages. Sometimes too much fighting sends me into a nose allergy attack. Yeah. And so, but I have a history of being allergic to pine trees, like, Oh, this falls in line with it. So if you've got severe allergies, keep that in mind. Honestly, essential oils, like it smell. And if they make you react, there's a real good chance that that essential oil, if it's found in that cannabis is going to make you react as well. Right? That's not for you. Well, okay, so I'm gonna go back now that you're talking about this kind of education component and trying things you had mentioned before, you know, early on in our conversation that you really wanted to start educating people and giving them an experience. And in our conversation earlier, we talked about a little bit of like, senior senior access to cannabis and, you know, just educating like, an older generation of people. Now, I think there's a different kind of stigma in in the senior generation versus today's generation versus like, the middle generation, but like, you know, what do you what are the stigmas from your generation that you found and, and, I mean, that's, that's the first question what are the what are this basic stigmas that you found in your generation that should be
Ronjini Joshua:Kind of flattened out.
Nikki Lawley:Smoking medicine. It's not medicine if you smoke it and that needs to go away. The fact that cannabis fries your brain I mean, my generation was the Nancy Reagan generation, right? Like, drugs are bad war on drugs. Yeah. Drugs the whole thing or dare? Dare. Here? Yeah. I mean, I never was a dare girl. Yeah, but but it was around. Yeah. I was afraid of their police dogs honestly. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, that's a huge, huge, huge stigma to remove, and people fearing they're losing, they're gonna lose their jobs. If they get a random drug test and they test positive for THC. That's a real thing. And when you're about to retire, potentially, you know, I mean, you're not gonna risk losing your job or not want to risk losing it people with guns, okay, that's another huge thing. I don't have a gun. But there's lots of people that like them. And like, I'm not talking assault rifle rifles, I'm talking like they like to target practice or like to shoot, hunt things. They should not not be allowed to have access to cannabis because of a stupid archaic law in the beds application for a firearm permit that basically says, Have you ever used any schedule one substance, like ever? And you've got to put yes or no. And if you lie on that, then you just committed perjury. And so like, hypothetically, they run that through the database, and they find your medical marijuana patient now you've just bought yourself a ticket to problems with the beds. Wow. So there's like some stupid things that need to change the fact that medical cannabis companies can't use banking. I mean, really think about posterous that is you're encouraging. Like, yeah, you're encouraging beings and violence by not letting them have access to banking, just like McDonald's, I don't understand. And, you know, you don't let them you know, get tax breaks for employees and for basic things like, normal business stuff, right? That needs to change. And my era especially needs to see that change before it's too late. What are some of the what are the some of the, like, kind of push backs that people that you know, like friends, family, things like that? Like what if what if people said to you, oh, that's for you, not me. I'm allergic to it. Yeah, there's no proof of that. Yeah. What do you mean you smoke your medicine? Yeah. Oh, how does that really work? Yeah, you've got asthma, and you're smoking weed? That's smart. Yeah. These are just common, everyday comments. Yeah. But yet, when you look at me, and you talk to me when I'm unmedicated versus medicated, it's traumatic. Yeah, I make no sense. There's no flow. There's no. in the morning before I'm medicated. I mean, I am an absolute raging evil. me. I mean, I am nasty in the morning. I mean, cuz I'm in dire pain. I know. Like, pain makes you crazy. Yeah, absolutely. Is it just does. I get snappy and snippy and zero tolerance for dog barking or people talking and there's like a huge hypersensitive awareness when I'm not medicated. So like loud noises. Not cool. I mean, I am so hyper startled by the loudest noise. I mean, I don't know if you heard but like, I think my cat knocked down something earlier on. And I like, kind of froze, because it was just any kind of startle. I'm just so hyper startled. So. Yeah. I don't know where I was going with that. But
Ronjini Joshua:I think you're proving a point that, you know, it's some of the some of the stigmas people have are quite silly. And just, it's it's kind of stupid, because people don't have anything to back it up. Right. Like, they're just, they're just met, there's guessing they're good. I mean, we all guess at a lot of things. I feel like but, uh, what do you what do you think is the best way to kind of get through that fog of of negative, you know, negative reinforcement towards cannabis in general. The first step is rescheduling it, right, these guys. And until that really happens, I think it's going to be a struggle for all of us. Because until the federal government recognizes, yeah, we've been putting people in jail for completely useless reason.
Nikki Lawley:You know, the poor guy in Mississippi. I forget his name, but he's literally in jail for life for 29 grams of pot. Okay, that is a problem. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't do anything. He wasn't even selling it, I don't believe I think it was just his possession charge. And that's a problems me. And so how do we remove that is the only way to do that is through major legislation and major reform in Washington locally from a small level from a Nicky lolly level, I share my story multiple times on a week on different podcasts just to share awareness. I don't have all the answers, I am not, you know, a PhD apart, I am just a patient that's experienced so many benefits, you know, I have yet to find a negative cannabis, except when you use it, you have lots of it. So
Ronjini Joshua:you run out,
Nikki Lawley:run out. So I get a little panicky when I get below a certain amount. Because it's not because I'm addicted to the plant. It's truly a matter of quality of life. Do I want to be like I am in the morning miserable and in pain and snappy and snippy all day? Or do I want to have a quality of life for the day? I prefer the latter. I'm sure your husband and your cat is happier in the afternoon, and are much happier. He knows he's learned it's taken him a few years, but he's definitely figured out. You need to smoke. Yeah.
Ronjini Joshua:That I mean, that's really interesting. And we feel it feel like Yes, it does. Even to me, like when you're saying it, it feels like not quite right. But But the more we learn about the plant, and the more we learn about the terpenes and the just the the different makeup of different plants in this industry, and how people can leverage it in different ways. You know, leveraging it for beauty leveraging it for just like you said, using it medicinally using it in beverages for anxiety things, I mean, it just there's just like such a host of things that you can use it for. And you know, I always go back in my brain, I always go back to the fact like, Hey, this is actually legit, it's a plant, like it's a plant at the end of the day, it's a flower that probably could grow, you know, successfully if you have, you know, if you have a nice place for it just like any other plant. And we shouldn't be, you know, if you go to India, if you go to China, if you go to a lot of like, you know, the European world, not European, but more like Asian countries, then you see that they they've been using these plants for, you know, hundreds and 1000s, you know, forever, just because they like to use natural remedies and natural medicine. And I think I think that's what kind of brings it back around. It's like this is a natural remedy, not manufactured in the lab, although it could be. But yeah, I just I think there Yeah, there's still a lot of things that we have to get over. As far as educating. I like the idea that you're talking about, like really introducing people to the plant itself. I don't know, there's that kind of experience available today where you can like go and look at the plant because that would be really cool. Like, you don't actually have, you know, a lab test to explain how a lab test works, right? And then have different terpenes that you could smell that like a true immersion experience. And then you like send them home with a beginner box? The How do we know how to do pot? Yeah, just from a very basic, you know,
Nikki Lawley:it's scary when you look at all the different vape devices and, you know, methodology and you see all these glass things and dab things and there's so many different methods. It's scary. It is scary. It's just, there's too much or 50 year old woman you're looking at this shit like, Yeah, no, I don't think I'm gonna do that. Yeah. These kids, they come over and they bring these rigs, like rigs, they're called and there's like, they cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars and all it is is glass thing with all kinds of cool things. And then they suck cannabis out of it. But if that's what floats their boat, yeah, I'm not gonna judge it. Let them do it. But for me, I'm looking at simple rapid onset, easy to understand. heart was smoked in the 60s. by many a person. Yes. So in my generation, so I'm just saying we need to remove the stoner stigma. The stoner stigma isn't doing any of us any good. When I use cannabis, I am anything but the stoner stigma I become who I am and who I meant to be. I feel Yeah, I feel that. It encourages creativity and encourages my thoughts to be able to connect without the plant. They don't connect. Yeah.
Ronjini Joshua:Yeah, no, I love I love this perspective. And I think you you You do have like such a unique experience, I really wanted to talk to you because of that, because you and you did the work. You did the research you like, found what works. And I think that's really important too, that everyone does that thing. And like, that's why this industry is growing. And that we get to talk to so many really cool people, that people like it serves people like you, it serves pretty much everybody. I mean, I think you're kind of like, a great example of someone who educated themselves. And I also think, like, during the pandemic, I think we've all become a little bit like, okay, maybe I'm This is my optimist, but like, we've all become a little bit more aware of like, our situation as people. And I think people are willing to do more research, and we're going into that, like, era of like, educating ourselves further, you know, like, maybe being a little bit more smart about our, our choices, hopefully.
Nikki Lawley:Right, right, exactly. The pandemic definitely gave me a lot of perspective. And it did allow me to research things and companies and understand there's more to a name than just a name whether standing that, just because there's Sour Diesel here, Canada, Nevada, they're not all going to be the same thing. And trying to share that with people and trying to get them to understand. Okay, so you get cherry tomatoes that are incredible from California. Right? They're great, right? And I'm from New York, and they just don't taste the same. Right? And I'm just using that as an example. Yeah, same cannabis, we need to normalize it like that kind of conversation. Yeah, there's different cultivars that are true specialists and their plant genetics and in their plant growth, and weighing how it's grown outdoor indoor light, depth grow, you know, there's hydro soil hybrids, yeah, there's just so many different ways growing it, and that's going to totally out be changed the outcome of what the end product is. So understanding that understanding the difference between isolate, broad spectrum, full spectrum, right, when I say full spectrum, I really mean THC to, to me, we're confusing the normal pleasure when we're talking about full spectrum hemp products. That's not the same to me as a full spectrum, whole cannabis marijuana flower. And it's very confusing. And when people don't understand that part, yeah, it's really hard to advance. So creating a system where people you can assess people's understanding of what they they don't know what they don't know. Yeah, we need a glossary, a glossary of terms. I'm sure, I'm sure someone has that I can't imagine like leafly or something doesn't have, you know, a glossary for people to look stuff up. But I'm gonna look that up. No, yeah.
Ronjini Joshua:But no, I think I really appreciate your experience. And I think hopefully, this will encourage people to not give up so quickly and like do their research and kind of find what works for them. Do you have any advice for people that are, you know, just getting into it and trying it for the first time or, or they feel like they had a bad experience, it doesn't work for them as a patient.
Nikki Lawley:So the first thing I wouldn't suggest you do is look for your local cannabis community on your social media, such as your local normal, such as your local cannabis community, like the cannabis community is an actual organization that more on this coast. It's like the cannabis community.org and there's like a lot of individual support groups that can help guide you through the how tos of the dispensary, your local prescribers that are, you know, in a dispensary, or can tell you who the medical marijuana prescribers are for patients, I think is real important to know who your local people are. There's online communities that have been my lifeline. I'm part of like 786 groups. Oh, wow. I'm like at max friends on LinkedIn, Max friends, Facebook, Max friend, Max followers on Insta. So I am always looking for ways to improve my outreach. And so I don't get paid by anybody. I truly just a plant advocate and I'm trying to help remove the stigma. And if there's anything I can help with, I'm happy to you can always check me out at Nikki and the plant.org. I also have Nikki in the plant Facebook page that you can follow. I found that that's the one good thing but just really teaming up with me Experts I mean, that's where I've learned the most never be threatened by someone who knows more than you. Because I've learned more every single day, I talk to experts that have taught me so many things that just helped connect those dots. And sometimes that's what you need, you need some one on one that with someone that's patient that can actually teach you the basics, because when you try and learn it by yourself, you know, I think I learned probably the most when I attempted to grow it. And I saw complexity, what goes into growing it, and how hard it was to actually get a product at the end that you want to be proud of. It's more than just dropping plant a seed in the dirt. It's a lot more complex, especially when you're looking for the quality that I'm looking for. And the genetics that I'm looking for.
Ronjini Joshua:I'm sure you've got a lot of respect for growers after that experience.
Nikki Lawley:You can't even imagine, and like with New York State and looking at the different licensing category, I've already figured out what I don't want to do. Yeah, that has anything to do with cultivation. You know, truly, because it's just not my skill set. Why am I going to try and learn something that 50 that I really don't care about right here about a product at the end, but the whole love and joy that people get from gardening? That's not you, you're like you. It's not me.
Ronjini Joshua:Yeah, I have to admit, I'd probably kill something I have not. I have a very brown mossy thumb. It's terrible. So I get it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your time today. I think this has been such a great conversation. And you've been so there are so many experiences that I think people can pull from. So I really appreciate your time. And we will put the books that you mentioned and the links in the show notes so everybody can grab those. I think I might have to get that book that you mentioned as well as a resource. So that would be awesome. Actually, it'd be awesome if we can get her on the podcast. Absolutely. Actually, you're connected to her I think. Oh, perfect. I talked about you already. Oh, great. Great. Awesome. Well, beyond Yeah, it's been such a great. Yeah, it's it's a good, good conversation. And I hope we get to see more of you. Where whatever you end up doing.
Nikki Lawley:You guys have been great. Really appreciate the time you've taken today. And I hope my story can just help one person. Awesome. Yes, I think it will. All right, Nikki. We'll see you next time. All right, all right.
Ronjini Joshua:greenroom podcast is brought to life by green seed PR, a cannabis green tech focused PR agency and a dedicated production team of editors mixers and show Booker's A huge thank you to the vessel team for providing their studio for our recording. Don't forget to subscribe and share the green room podcast with friends, colleagues and family. That way you'll never miss an episode and we can keep the lights on. If you're feeling extra generous, please leave us review on your favorite podcast listening platform. You can also find us on Instagram at Green seed PR and live video versions of all of our podcasts on YouTube. Would you like to be on the guests on the show? Or do you have a great guest referral. Awesome. Submit your guests at Green Seed PR .com slash the hyphen green hyphen room. Thanks for listening and be well