Ep 36: Cannabis BS - the good, the bad, and the ugly. An interview w/ Kristen Yoder, CannaBS Detector Podcast

 In this episode we interview Kristen Yoder who is  a 16-year cannabis industry veteran, media personality, speaker, host of The CannaBS Detector Podcast, and the CEO of the cannabis business firm, Soil To The Oil.  In 2005, Kristen started her journey in the cannabis industry as a bud-tender in one of the first dispensaries in Venice, California.  Kristen shares how she has become a trusted authority by educating her audience when they enter the cannabis industry.  Kristen educates us on how to navigate the difficulties in the heavily regulated Cannabis industry.   

You'll learn why Kristen is known as the cannabis industry's "BS Detector".   What you don't know will shock you!   Get ready for the whole truth...

Connect w/ Kristen:
CannaBS Detector Podcast
https://www.soiltotheoil.com/
LinkedIn: Kristen Yoder
Instagram: Kristen Yoder
Facebook: Kristen Yoder

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua: 0:11

This was a very exciting, passionate, high energy interview with Kristen Yoder. She is our self proclaimed bs detector, which I love. She has pretty much had an every job in cannabis, I think that you could think of. She was like growing she was working in a dispensary. She was consulting she was doing every part of it and she kind of just got sick of the BS. Absolutely. I cannot wait to share with you guys what she has to say she she lets it go. Hello, thank you for joining us in the green room. Today we have Kristen Yoder, the cannabis bs detector. I think I elongated that a little bit. Thanks for joining us, Kristen.

Kristen Yoder: 0:56

Thanks for having me. Yeah. And actually, before we get started, I just want to Sure. Yeah, it's, I mean, I, I've been in the Los Angeles So I got a job managing the first dispensary in shout out the podcast before we start, what is the podcast the cannabis industry since 2005. So I'll try to make it quick the city of Los Angeles in 2005. And before that, I was managing title of the podcast that people can find that is yours. because it's a long I have two, I'm releasing a new one June 1, the a hair salon. So, I mean, I was the typical stoner person who confidence investor. But my podcast that I've been doing is called the CannaBS Detector. So like cannabis minus the I. got was just like, oh my god, I can buy weed at a store like this is Yes,

Ronjini Joshua: 1:22

perfect. And then we'll have the links in the show notes so everybody can get those. But one of the reasons I amazing. But back then also, it was medical. So I had to get a wanted to interview you today is just because like it's great to have someone who knows a lot about what's going on in the doctor's recommendation and there was no advertising industry. And of course, all the cannabis. Yes, you know, you could share with some of the people. So we typically start actually the owner of the dispensary was so paranoid back off with kind of the journey of how people got into it, and then go into their current role from there. So can you give us a then that he initially named it alternative caregivers Christian little bit of background on like how you got here today? discount dispensary. Wow. That's a lot of adjectives. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's shortened over the years. But um, there was a a like forum called weed tracker. And there was a rumor on there that said that there was like a 10 foot Jesus statue at the place. So he ended up removing Christian from it. And then it was alternative caregivers discount dispensary until we got raided by the DEA. And and that's when I was like, we should change it to California alternative caregivers so that no one could Google us and see that we were rated. Yeah. And I was the only one there. That was fun. Oh, my gosh. For anyone who has like done any research back when the cole memo came out was when Obama said we're not going to give the DEA funding to go in and invade states rights. Like the only way you can read dispensary's is if the state asks for you to come in. So the day Eric Holder took office as attorney general, they rated for dispensary's in finance as an SU essentially and and I was the only one there, which like that was the first time Well no, actually a second time I've been in handcuffs. That's another story. Yeah, it was great. It was like really, luckily, I was the only one there and I had them lock the door. So there were no guns involved. But they essentially they smashed all the cameras. They were there for three hours just destroying the place taking everything. And then they left and that was it. They didn't do anything about it. This was common smashing grabs back in the day. Yeah, um, there was actually one in Santa Ana, where they didn't smash all the cameras and some cops got busted eating edibles and making fun of a woman in a wheelchair. Yeah, these were the crazy day Yeah. Before legalization. So anyways, um, I was there for five years. I got really burnt out because we were the city of La back in 2007 was going to licensed dispensaries and this is what's funny. They're still saying they're gonna license dispensaries and it's still only about 200 licensed dispensaries in a city of 4 million people. I mean the corruption is insane. So I got burnt out from all of that and I quit and I went and learned how to grow cannabis indoor and outdoor and like to work at a warehouse in North Hollywood. Pretty sure it was for the Russian mafia. And North Hollywood. Yeah, that sounds about right. That sounds rough.

Kristen Yoder: 5:32

Yeah. It was like, that's when I learned that growing is hard. It's labor. It's like, it was hot. They kept bringing people in. So there was all these bugs and it was just this nonstop fight to like, save the plants.

Ronjini Joshua: 5:46

How did you find that place? How do you know like, oh, there's a grow here. I'm gonna go work there.

Kristen Yoder: 5:52

So I had met someone when I was growing clones in my house in my bedroom, and I sold him some so I was apprenticing for him. And he got the job with the Russian. Okay, God, so I just yeah, so um, yeah, I'm not cut out for labor, like shout out to the growers. I reached out to my friend who was running one of the largest edible companies at the time. And he brought he used to be a vendor to the dispensary I worked at, and he knew I was good at managing business. So he brought me in to start off handling inventory and supply chain management. And within a few months, I started doing product development with him and the kitchen. And after two years, I was managing all of the operations. And at that time, we were serving 1000 dispensaries in California, we had 70 products, six and r&d at all times, help them start a evergreen herbal up in Washington State. And it's insane. But then they got raided, and then they got raided again. And the second time, there was no operations to manage. So I left and I went to work for the lab that I had used to do product development, and the testing of our concentrates was at the edible company. And it was then which this is around 2015 2016. They were working on a terpene training kit. And that's like when I learned that indicus the tiva is totally false. And it blew my mind. It took me like a month I compare it to like losing your religion. Who was like But wait, but citybus had high like, like, I cannot compute you know,

Ronjini Joshua: 7:38

go back real quick. You said it's totally false. So what do you mean by it's totally false?

Kristen Yoder: 7:43

Like, let me put it this way. If I was to ask you, what does the What does blue tastes like? It blue is a color colors don't have taste. That's a visual. A sativa indika This is a taxonomic classification, basically based off of where it was found. And what physical characteristics are so heavy, is actually sin tiva it's got the thin leaves, it's tall, it takes longer to flower indika was found in India has it's more short. It's more resinous. Um, but that has nothing to do with the effects at all. Oh, gotcha. It's like the first thing people do when they go to buy cannabis. If they have samples is they smell it? And it's like, that's what it is. It's the turf. Yeah, Benoit. Yeah. And the terpenes. That's what makes the difference. It's not just THC. It's the entourage effect. Yo, yeah. So I i've always considered myself someone to be like a source of information. So all of a sudden, I'm like, Oh, my God, I must atone for my sins of five years of being like doing it across the table or a

Ronjini Joshua: 9:02

heartbeat. Maybe Jesus was there was a Jesus statue somewhere.

Kristen Yoder: 9:07

Yeah, I felt the conviction. Yes. I started teaching classes, to whoever would listen. And still to this day I do. But I've also added a BS detection element to it to help people be more discerning and to ask questions of brands to force them to be more scientifically accurate because I really just don't respect any companies that stick with the tiva indika hybrid, because that's what consumers want. consumers want whatever you tell them. Yeah, absolutely. It's on you teach them because when I teach them and they go to a dispensary and all they see is to tiva indika, whatever, but then how are they supposed to know? Yeah, yeah. Um, so it should be a top down effort. So anyways, um, I was at the lab for a year and then I met my ex business partner. Who was a management consultant and an accountant? And we were like, let's try management consulting. And I totally hated it. It was horrible. It was so boring. It's like, I don't want to do business plans. Yeah. And, and to add tax stuff like this is the worst. Yeah, I got in this because I love the plant. And so we split. And the other thing is, she was so positive, like, so positive. And I'm like, Am I just the most negative person in the world, or she kind of crazy. And so once we split, I updated my title on LinkedIn and said, veteran bs detector. And that was like in 2017. And it was like, at that point that I started getting all these opportunities, and I changed to a strategic advisor, meaning I'm not going to do your work for you. I will be the wall you bounce your ideas off of. And I will make sure that you're not getting screwed over by your consultants and your lawyers. Like I'm a best friend for hire. But the thing is, is I'm best with idea stage entrepreneurs, because I can stop you

Ronjini Joshua: 11:14

from making making a mistake or

Kristen Yoder: 11:17

mistakes. And so in the end, I realized I was just talking everyone out of the cannabis industry. There's not very much return business. In that sense.

Ronjini Joshua: 11:29

Not Not once you once not once you get them out, you're like you should go become something else.

Kristen Yoder: 11:34

My advice is, if you want to start a cannabis business, workout one first Yeah, turn on someone else's dime, I guarantee you will not want to start one after that, because it's not fun at all, compliance is incredibly expensive and difficult. And, and just it's not what people think it is at all. And I know so many people that are like cannabis saved my life. And I'm going to start a CBD company. And it's like, that's not good enough. That's not a good enough reason. And I commend you for that. But you have to have a ton of money, because you're competing with huge companies that I mean, are being funded by alcohol and tobacco and CPG companies. And you I mean, in certain like THC touching companies, you can't just bankrupt out of these mistakes. And when you get investors, I mean, my God, you are in a marriage with no love. Yeah, and it can be very awful. I've seen investors destroy companies inside out. So, um, so yeah, when the pandemic hit, I had my third clinical burnout in the industry, and I'm just like, the world is ending. We're all gonna die. What does anything matter? Right? You know? And then I went through some stuff. And like, just in March, I finally realized, like, I should not be smoked. Like, I kept trying to quit smoking, because I'm like, I need to get back on my game. But I couldn't. And then I'm like, Oh, my God, dude, I'm like addicted to weed. And that kind of blew my mind because I always thought weed is an addict. You can't get addicted to it. Yeah, it's not a good choice. Psychologically addictive? Yep. Does that matter? Yeah, honestly, the point of addiction is is impedes your, your family situations, your personal your social situations, like, I learned about cannabis use disorder after I had quit. And I'm like, holy crap, I met every single criteria. So I've been, I mean, I quit weed. I mean, I haven't consumed anything for like, maybe going on like, two and a half months, and I've never felt better. And I had to go through therapy and be like, who even Am I like, I know Hi, for 20 years, my entire career is cannabis. And now that I'm not smoking it, like, can I even be in the industry? But then I realized like, Yeah, all I've been doing for the past four years is calling out the BS. And to me, this is just the more Bs and if anything, I'm more passionate and like ready and capable to continue to speak for others that can't because they have financial obligations or whatever, to continue protecting people from all the BS out there. So here we are.

Ronjini Joshua: 14:32

Yeah, no, that's really you know, I think when it comes to addiction, like what you were saying I think addiction is addiction. It could have been anything right you could be addicted to anything like right you know you that's a it's a different quality. It's maybe maybe it's not the cannabis specifically you could have been addicted to coffee you could have been a gummy bears. Like if you do something long enough, you know, to be addicted to a behavior. It's a habit. It's a habit. Yeah. Also,

Kristen Yoder: 14:58

like people It's not physically addictive. And it's like, what is that? That's not? That doesn't matter. And they're like, well, if there's no physical dependence, but actually like, I think that I might have a naturally balanced ECS system that didn't need extra cannabis like you need to have any you

Ronjini Joshua: 15:21

already had your receptors full. Exactly.

Kristen Yoder: 15:23

I wonder if medical cannabis users who find relief with cannabis feel the way I feel naturally. Yeah, I'm with the plan. But like, I don't have I mean, I had a ton of physical withdrawals, which I didn't know existed. And I feel like no, it's my one of my jobs is to be a balanced objective pro cannabis voice that says, It's not for everyone. Yeah. And you can your use can get out of control. And you wouldn't be the first or the last person to end up in that place. And to let people know, like, there, I mean, I found this subreddit called leaves. And I had seen the posts for like, six months before I started feeling like I want to be a part of that group. And it was just people that are like, dude, like, I can't eat like, I can't sleep. I mean, I, I couldn't eat for the first week, I had insomnia for at least 30 days, the dreams are insane. I had headaches,

Ronjini Joshua: 16:26

I thought, this is after you stopped.

Kristen Yoder: 16:29

Yeah, that's from quitting and quitting a very heavy user for so long. And I just feel like, we're so used to being defensive about our plans, because we've been fighting for recognition as a medical like as a legitimate medical solution and alternative to pharmaceuticals. And anytime anything negative comes up, that advocates cannot accept that there might be some negatives to it, right? automatically shut it down, ran. And because of that, I had too strong of cognitive dissonance to recognize that my use had become a problem, which it's like, you here know that there are arguments about potency limitations, the only people that are talking about it are prohibitionists that see no medical value. Now, I could tell you personally, I lost consciousness four times in 2019, from dabbing on an empty stomach. And the fourth time I ended up in an ambulance, which is the first time I've ever been in an ambulance, which of course I denied because not health insurance and like this is America. I mean, I I fell in front of all these people at a rosin press event. So my God, it's embarrassing. One day, I'm wearing a freakin mini skirt.

Sheldon: 17:55

Okay.

Kristen Yoder: 17:56

And it was like, around my waist, and everyone was terrified. And I'm like, I just need it was my blood sugar drop?

Ronjini Joshua: 18:04

Yeah. And it's like, well, you didn't meet you said yeah, so

Kristen Yoder: 18:06

Exactly. So what I feel is a potency limit is not it doesn't make sense, because you can't like limit the potency and flour. First of all concentrates I'm on the fence with because I don't really see the necessity. I feel like vape pens become adult pacifiers after a while, where you just walk around hitting it all the time. It's cigarettes,

Ronjini Joshua: 18:31

similar to cigarettes, I mean,

Kristen Yoder: 18:33

but what I think we need is more warnings for concentrates. Because I'm, I used to make wax on my roof, like I dabbed forever. And if I can pass out an event, I've seen other people throw up or pass out or suffocate. It was like a joke that you don't tell people not to take a fat dab and hold it because you're used to that when you smoke, just to watch them choke. Cuz that's funny. Yeah. That's not cool, dude. It's like we should have more warnings, we should be more responsible. And because if we aren't, then we're no better than alcohol and tobacco and the fact that we're not warming consumers in the first place. And so yeah, I feel like that's part of my mission now is not just calling out the Bs, but to be a balanced voice that says, I agree that concentrates are not good for young people. I agree that they're not great for anyone anyways, period. But if we're going to sell them, then take the initiative to warn people. What can happen or it's going to become a big problem, and then it's going to be in the news. And then we're going to get heavily regulated and punished. And if we really are better than alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceuticals, we should be up front and we're not and that's BS.

Ronjini Joshua: 19:59

I think that's one The thing that's Bs, that's perfect. I think that's one of the things about, like, the unique position that this industry is in is that, like, we, we can take examples from everybody else who messed up and do it the right way. And we've talked about this a lot on this podcast of like, starting off on the right foot, like we are starting off, so just start the correct way. It's like entering into relationship without having lies, you know, like that kind of stuff. It's like, just the basics. And I think you've got people like yourself, and a lot of the people that the guests that we've had, that are trying to take a socially responsible position towards it as much as they know how to. And then you've got the people who are again, just trying to make money or like, or, as Brett calls them, snakes in the grass, you know, these guys who are just like, you know, they're to be there.

Kristen Yoder: 20:53

I mean, also my best friend, Alice, smooth, she has ch s and

Ronjini Joshua: 20:59

what, what is the CHS,

Kristen Yoder: 21:01

that's cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, okay, where your body essentially after a specific, I mean, it's nice, we don't understand what's going on. But essentially, all the sudden, it's like contact dermatitis. If you're a hairdresser, you're around chemicals. So often at a certain point, your body starts to react against them. Okay. She was an edible reviewer. She was a bud tender. And all of a sudden, she could not stop throwing up for 17 days, she could not throw up and the only time that she got any sort of relief was in hot showers or baths, and she would have to rub capsaicin cream on her stomach. And she went to the hospital and they were like, yes. From cannabis. She's like, that doesn't make sense. And the nefarious part of this is, is the cannabis is a known anti emetic. Yeah. Give it to people with chemotherapy, right things to stop them with nasza. Yeah. And that's the scary part is, if people don't know about CHS, and they find themselves getting sick, they don't know to stop cannabis. All you have to do is stop cannabis. They could die. I mean, she's had people reach out to her this woman, her son killed himself because he couldn't figure out what was wrong with him and their people.

Ronjini Joshua: 22:31

And her son had CHS. Yeah.

Kristen Yoder: 22:33

She didn't click until she saw what Alice does press about it. And Alice has become like public enemy number one in a lot of ways to the industry, because they're like, Well, what about how much it helps people? It's like, Yeah, but what about when it hurts people and she gets messages from er doctors that are like CHS cases are through the roof. And people are like, Oh, well, what? Why haven't we heard about it until now? It's like, um, because people can tell the doctors they were using cannabis. Safe to tell. And now it's like, it's there are medical insurance billing codes for CHS, like this is not unknown. And until people recognize, like, oh, it could be the cannabis, they can get so sick. And it's really crazy. So again, this is like, the industry would rather her shut up and stop talking about it. But she keeps talking about it. And every time she does, she gets a bunch of messages from people like, I'm currently in the hospital with this. I just heard about this, whatever, whatever. And it's like, if this was a pharmaceutical,

Ronjini Joshua: 23:45

oh, they would be off the shelf immediately. Yeah.

Kristen Yoder: 23:48

What? They had a way to hide that. And yeah, like not allow it because they want FDA approval, because that's what we're doing. Yeah. And the fact is, is we have to admit that it is a medicine, and treat it that way. And it can have negative side effects. And until we can all admit to that, and be forthcoming with people. And the problem is is when we're not we're lying by omission. And when you're caught lying, it makes everyone look bad. Yeah, yeah. And so then you have people like Kevin sabet, who's like the dude behind smart this anti cannabis asshole who used to run the Oh mdcp who is like cannabis is the next big tobacco look at what they're hiding, right?

Ronjini Joshua: 24:33

I mean, well, and it's just like politics. They're gonna find the dirt and they're gonna bring it to the forefront.

Kristen Yoder: 24:37

Exactly. Yeah, I just feel like I don't I just don't think it's acceptable for cannabis advocates to to ignore the negatives and only focus on the positives when you could be hurting people that way. That is the antithesis of compassion. And these things are becoming more well known, we should want more information, more studies into this to figure out what is the mechanics behind it like what's causing it. And people are like, Oh, it's pesticides, but it's not pesticides, because you can have cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, from edibles, from smoking, from all kinds of different ways from people who grew their own completely organic. I mean, just the fact of heating up a chemical changes its composition. So you would not have the same results if you ate something versus smoking it because you're changing the chemicals, right? It's cannabis. let's admit that and like, let's let people know and do it before. People like Kevin sabet. Go and screw up everything. Yeah, no.

Ronjini Joshua: 25:47

Well, I think when you're bringing this up, it's really interesting, because it's just like food. I mean, I often compare it to the food industry. People can't eat gluten, so you don't eat gluten. It's like there's everything is not for everyone. And, and it's not I think I like the message that you're sending is like, being an advocate. And cannabis is not about everybody getting high or taking cannabis. It's about having a choice to have it if they want to, or to be honest about it. Like, like you said, like in the hospital, they can't even admit that they're doing it because they're worried about the repercussions. Like Exactly. It's just about being open and honest. And it being available to people who do want it. And then like you said, doing these warnings is really important. I mean, if everybody else has to do and warning, why shouldn't the cannabis industry, the only

Kristen Yoder: 26:36

reason they have to do warnings is because they lied, they lied in the first place. Right? knock them down. And I feel like I was scared to come out about my addiction because, hey, that doesn't exist. Yeah, be. It's like, I don't want what I'm saying to be taken out of context by the likes of Kevin sabet, and others. But I also feel that it's more important that I talk about my experiences because our industry glorifies overconsumption, they just do like, that's just the way it is. And also, when legalization for adult use passes, medical programs get knocked out there a second thought medical cannabis is not really even on the table anymore. Because, for example, in California, medical cannabis didn't have potency limits. You could have 1000 milligram edibles and set up 100 milligram for recreational users, because they need stronger cannabis and stronger products because they're sick, and they use it more and they have stronger or higher tolerances, and they shouldn't be paying the same amount of taxes. And when it comes to regulations, the government is lazy and inept, and they're like, we can't deal with two different situations. We're just going to make it one. So now everyone is limited to 100 milligram potency and full taxation. Unless you register with the state, then you can save like 10% on taxes. But that I mean, that totally wipes out medical use. And then it's like in California 70% of the state decided not to regulate cannabis. So instead of the gray state we had before where we had medical everywhere. Now, if you're not licensed, you're illegal period. So 70% of the state is without legal access. What about the medical users? Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua: 28:40

yeah.

Kristen Yoder: 28:41

No, like, this is the problem that I think there's just so much gray and small print that people are not paying attention to that. It's like when we have legalization. We need home grows, we need to have a separate MediCal program, we need to have insurance help with the MediCal program, if we truly see it as medical, yeah, we also need to treat it like a medicine and recognize that it's not for everyone and that we should have some warnings on it. And and people are just too motivated by getting it federally legalized so they can have banking, and they're not they don't want the negatives coming out. And I just I don't think that that I think is unethical.

Ronjini Joshua: 29:27

Yeah. And also Yeah, you should that well, but this is I mean this this you know, the America has a incentivize lies. So of course, you know, people are going to lie because that's the only way to do it. So that's that's the other problem is the government is incentivizing hiding things by saying okay, well, you can get through faster, you know, don't give me the whole picture. Just give me the picture that you want us to see. And then you could be pushed through faster. So I mean, I think that's a problem of this like government is flat. Yeah, it's it's very complicated that way. But I mean, I also think that you know, authenticity we have like this, this industry has an opportunity to be authentic. I like that you're a cannabis advocate, that you're a cannabis advocate who's not smoking. You know, like, it almost makes it you wonder, okay, well, why? And then, you know, then you get to explain your story. And it makes a lot of sense to be able to understand all the nuances that are like going on

Kristen Yoder: 30:27

nuanced subject. And I mean, like I say, the industry is super lucky, me and Alice, are pro cannabis. Yeah, because we wouldn't be potent adversaries if we weren't. And that's the point is like, we're not the enemy. If we're talking about our experiences, we're trying to help people, which is what this industry used to be about until it became run by capitalists. And the minute I see Charles Koch, who I mean the Koch brothers like I challenge anyone listening Google, the Koch brothers, they have destroyed the planet like these are oil and gas guys who are behind conservative news media manipulation, and I mean, they're terrible people. And now Charles Koch and Snoop Dogg are like starting the American cannabis party, your freedom, whatever it was. Right, right. Right. And it's like, What dude are you wake up like when john bainer runs, you know, one of the largest cannabis hedge funds, and they're making deals on national legalization back in the day they had a deal with canopy that they would sell for 3 billion 300 billion summit, say an amount, then all of a sudden john banners pro cannabis. And it's like, a dude from Wrigley runs parallel. And it's like, all these companies are being run by finance people. They don't care about the industry. They don't care about medical users, and they will dominate the industry. And I feel like at a certain point, cannabis use is like turning people into like, pacified lemmings on a bus, just getting high driving off a cliff into like being destroyed, because small businesses are not going to last mass consolidation. And they're going to wait until you fail and then buy you pennies on the dollar, because this is what they did in Canada. And this is the spring of America, like this is not like a meritocracy. Like just because you're a good person probably means you're not going to get investment. Yes, you're a good person. You're good. Exactly. So I just feel like wake up people. You know, like my rage has increased. Let me tell you about cannabis. But I feel like I am channeling it towards a positive thing, which is really just creating awareness and people to be more informed. Start asking more questions start demanding better of msos and other companies because consumers have power. I mean, vote with your dollars support companies that are doing what you want them to do demand the msos support, social equity. I mean, that's another thing is like, who has all the money, they should be supporting social equity, they should have social equity incubators, because they're the ones who know how to maneuver everything. They're the ones lobbying to make it difficult in the first place. Yeah, um, you know, it's like, we don't hold these companies responsible for anything, we just talk about them. That's not good enough right now.

Sheldon: 33:50

Well, I think that's a big part of the importance of what you're doing and why I personally appreciate it because the consumer in general doesn't know what to ask if they're not presented with more options for what the pros can be and what the problems can be. And I don't think we can have that conversation until more people like yourself, come out and say, here's the full story. And you can say that about anything across any industry. You can even say that about relationships. Yeah, you're walking in and you need to know the full story about that person. But we show up with our best self. I'm perfect until problems go wrong. And you're like, oh, surprise. Yeah, yeah. This is great. What you're doing and thank you for, for being so vulnerable, vulnerable and honest. And probably taking a lot of the punches that people are afraid to take.

Kristen Yoder: 34:34

I mean, honestly, I people don't really hate me. Like, I feel like a lot of people. I think my voice helps a lot. Yeah, it's really cute. I mean, if I can't get taken seriously, then I might as well just throw punches all the time. Right. You know, but like, I say what other people can't because they have financial obligations and they're afraid of being sued or something. Because I don't care. Like, I've been in this industry so long I've been beaten down so many times as a young woman in Los Angeles, the most corrupt industry out there.

Ronjini Joshua: 35:11

Well, it's funny because as many as you were telling your story, every time you said like, your friend hired you, or you went somewhere, it was always he, he hired me. I went here, my friend was a him. And so like, it shows like how much like you're you are probably surrounded just by like, a lot of different kinds of men because that industry is not it wasn't. It's not woman friendly. I mean,

Kristen Yoder: 35:34

it's a very bro culture, bro. Yeah. It's very tech, bro. Yes, like very close to tech bro side. And same with the investors. It's like almost all men. And I mean, that's why I'm doing my other podcast, the confident investor. My, my co host, Colby McFadden. I had him do like a mini series on my podcast called all things green about investing in cannabis. And he was like, I have two daughters. I have two granddaughters. And there's not enough women that are investing that are in the financial side. And I want to make a podcast that helps empower women to be more confident in investing. And so I mean, I suffer with this too. I'm, I appease people where I'd be like, Oh, well, this is my cost. Oh, you can't afford it. Well, I'll work with you. Yeah. And it's like, don't do that. Men don't do that. So okay, I had my mind blown by Renee gang Yo, who runs women gross. She runs Hollywood North up in Canada. She is a trans woman. She came on my podcast with me and my ex business partner on cannabis business minds. And she was like, I'll tell you the difference between men and women because I was a middle aged white guy. Yeah, let me tell you the difference. It's testosterone. testosterone is like liquid confidence. And when you go into these investment pitches, it's just like, her like, Oh, dude, let me show you this. Like, it's like a dick swinging contest, essentially. And, and she was like, yeah, and once I started taking estrogen, I started being more aware of the people around me and being like, Are you good? Like, are you cool? You know, and, and that's the problem is, women are cutthroat bullshitters. They're like, I've looked into this, I believe we can do

Ronjini Joshua: 37:38

we want to back it up by facts. And we were like, trying to prove something versus going in there feeling like we own it already.

Kristen Yoder: 37:45

Make it to make it has like some legit totally science behind it. And so, um, that's how we start off the podcast is talking about the hormonal differences between men and women in the first place. But studies have shown that women are better investors, because we do research. We think long term, we are goal oriented. We also make better leaders. And we I mean, I cannot tell you how many women have actually been kicked out of their own cannabis companies. Strong Arm out of them by men ganging up on them. Like, it's crazy. So it's just about building up that confidence to go in there with the men and be like, this is what I got, like, yeah, you know, stop appeasing. And I remember just being like, holy shit. And then after that, just thinking like, how would a man handle this? Yeah, what a man handle this. And it's like, I don't get deals on my prices. Like, this is what it is. I've been in the industry for 16 years. I know more than mostly everybody. Why should I have to give you a deal? Like why am I not getting paid like a man because I sound like a 12 year old girl. Yeah. Like, what is that? Because I say bro, cuz I mean, it's just, it's super frustrating. Which is why I've really just kind of maneuvered into just doing media and education because I'm tired of having to prove my worth to people. When it's like, No, you can't look at my background and see my worth because I'm a woman. Yeah, I don't want to work with you anyways. Yeah, luck. No,

Ronjini Joshua: 39:25

I mean, just you telling us like your story. You just thought like, credentials piled up. But you know, you've been you've been rated by the DEA, you worked at a dispensary. You tried to grow, you try to do the grow. You tried to get invest. You know, it's like, you've been through all the different parts of it. It's on paper, like how is that not visible?

Kristen Yoder: 39:44

I mean, it's, it's just that I don't have I'm, there's also this thing called the Dunning Kruger effect, and it's that the dumbest people are the most confident and the smartest people suffer from imposter syndrome because we know Better, like we're more humble, because we're like, smart enough to know you don't know everything. And dumb people are like, essentially Trump, who's just a freakin idiot. And yet he's out there like, oh, spectacular, stupendous, like the best, you know, the blah blah, blah. People eat it up. That is literally just testosterone. Pure testosterone. What is it? Like, in Kruger?

Ronjini Joshua: 40:29

What does that sit? What is the saying about like, blissfully stupid or? Well, back to the conversation? Yeah, ignorance is bliss. Yeah,

Sheldon: 40:37

yeah. That goes back to the consumer conversation that really is about money. Because if you've got a bunch of people who are confidently buying with no knowledge, then they're just making a lot of money. But if you didn't, if you infuse them with intelligence, now they're slowing down their purchasing process being more picky. But once you once you actually encourage that, then you've got an educated consumer. There's a gap there. Yeah, there's time that has happened. So

Ronjini Joshua: 41:01

well. Okay. Going back to that conversation, I think, I think something that we could get from you is like, just brands that are going into this that should be authentic, should be open. What do you think that they're like, stepping stones should be to opening up this like, door of window of like transparency.

Kristen Yoder: 41:24

lab testing, comprehensive lab testing, I want to know, where was it grown, indoor outdoor, like, if you could even shout out who the farmer was. There's a company called chemistry. I think it's like try chemistry calm or something on their label. They have like 10 terpenes. All the cannabinoids in it, where it was grown, who it was grown by, like, embrace the science. And I don't trust companies that put all their money into their marketing budget, because good cannabis sells itself. Quality is so important, consistent quality, like always put quality first, and then use the science. It's so much more interesting to separate yourself from the pack and focus on education. I mean, that's so important as well, because you can build up. I mean, for brands, it's the story is everything when I was at the dispensary when I could tell people like oh, yeah, I know this guy, I miss how he grows it. It's like, you buy the story. Yeah. And so it's like, if you are transparent, and you invest in good products, that you keep fresh, and you put on the labels what's in it, then you can educate your consumers. And you will be so much more different than everyone else, that people are going to want to buy other things because they'll be lacking all this information that they've grown that you're Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, that's one thing I was gonna ask about. Like, do you think it's too much information for people? And I think that's what a lot of brands probably would say. That's their, like, scapegoat like, Oh, well, they can't. They can't process this is too much. Are you calling your consumer stupid? Yeah. Because really, I think that it like there's a company, is it a cannabis scape? Um, there's a company that makes a pie chart, where each color is a terpene. Tell you like the different concentrations, and you can just see the pie chart and be like, Oh, that's like, mostly purple and yellow. I like that one. Okay. It's a way to, like visually translate numbers into something recognizable. Yeah. And you start training people that way? Look, I mean, when people first learned into positiva, they started asking for Oh, do you have like a 60% indika hybrid? Like, they will work with what you give them? Yeah. And if you don't give them anything, that's what you get. But if you don't, I mean, differentiation is super key in a very crowded industry, where everyone's just focused on like, cute labels, and Merchandising, and potency. So be different.

Ronjini Joshua: 44:18

You can still you can still have cute labels. I mean, even when you're saying like this pie chart, having a decode like we were talking about one of our editors in this interviews, having a glossary, what are the different terpenes? What did they mean? What did they look like? What do they smell like? And then like, like you said, that little pie chart is like perfect mark. I mean, whatever brand ends up picking that up, or brands multiple, they might start setting a standard for other people to start doing that, like you said, people are going to want the information that they've been getting

Sheldon: 44:49

know what is the bigger issue though, is it that testing is too expensive and most companies it's

Ronjini Joshua: 44:55

everyone has to test at some point when certain levels of testing right right What is the real reason

Kristen Yoder: 45:01

it is more expensive, but that's why I'm saying, allocate some of your marketing budget into this. It's like all these companies, they just spend a ton of money marketing all the time, because their products suck. You know, usually they do, like the biggest brands, you get so big that you cannot maintain quality. And that is obvious. And so it's like, I know people that have bought cookies and are like, this sucks, dude, but they got it because of the brand or whatever. But when you put that into making more information and focus on, just get more innovative with your marketing, do more online stuff, like, it's just do more things to, um, to appease the bud tenders, because they're your best friend, right? Make more incentive for them to sell your products. There's so many different ways you can do it. But once you make yourself that much more transparent, other brands aren't that good. It's like, yeah, just you need to train people. And once you do that, then they stick with you, because they find that there's not many other brands they could go to, that gives them the information they need. And people love learning about it. I mean, real Canvas, people love it. And there will always be the broke people that buy whatever they can afford. And that's where the big brands come in. Because they have cheaper stuff. Like you're not always going to be able to compete with everybody. So why not just carve out a niche of being with the more informed consumers and build more of like, a loyalty and yeah, yeah, like on Instagram and, like, just being more interactive with people,

Ronjini Joshua: 46:59

right? Like, find your tribe, basically. And then cultivate, cultivate the tribe, you know, it's like, exactly, yeah, I yeah, I think I think people are so I mean, part of it, I think, is laziness. And then there's like the whole regulation federal regulations where they're like, so caught up with like, being afraid of what they can say what they can say. So it's, I feel like right now, like a lot of brands are caught. Some some brands are caught between, like this rock and this hard place of like, navigating how to do it in a way where they don't get in trouble. And then also like trying to get customers in an exciting way. And so like, they're leaving a lot of what you're saying on the table for, you know, somebody else, I guess to do it, because they either don't want to spend the money or whatever, whatever their hang ups are. And I think that does cause me, you're always gonna get that though, you're always gonna get that mix,

Sheldon: 47:54

there's that

Kristen Yoder: 47:56

people fail. Yeah, this is an incredibly competitive market. If you're not in this for the right reason, you're not going to make it anyway. So you might as well try.

Ronjini Joshua: 48:05

Yeah, if you're gonna try go 100%. Like,

Kristen Yoder: 48:11

just you have to be different in this industry, you have to be different. Otherwise, you're just another package that you know, eventually is going to fail.

Sheldon: 48:21

Yeah, well, you hit the nail on the head that you really have to be willing to learn because we're in an industry right now, where we don't know what we don't know, new discoveries are being made every day. And if you're not willing to continue your education, you will create a problem.

Kristen Yoder: 48:36

And you don't deserve to be in the industry, in my opinion. If you're in this for the money, like we don't want you

Ronjini Joshua: 48:42

Yeah, well, you can you can make money doing anything. Like literally, you could make money doing anything. Yeah, go

Kristen Yoder: 48:47

do something else. Like we have enough of those people in the industry right now. Yeah. I mean, I just I'm tired of seeing capitalists come in here and exploit this plant that they wouldn't have touched until it was safe for them. Yeah, they don't belong. We don't want you here.

Ronjini Joshua: 49:06

Yeah, that's it. I mean, that's a good point. It's like, yeah, you You pretended like it didn't exist for 20 years. So why now? Exactly. Yeah. Well, what what kind of other advice can you give? I think, I mean, we've talked a lot about a lot of different things. What kind of advice would you give to, let's say, you know, a brand that's feels like it knows itself and things that the best practice a couple of best practices that you think, other than transparency, of course, that some of these brands new brands should follow.

Kristen Yoder: 49:39

transparency and communications inside the company, like, Why does it have to suck to work at a cannabis company like you know what, you don't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to operation management and and running a company like there's a difference with employees who enjoy coming into work, who feel valued, they are more productive. It's a better environment, things succeed because they put more effort into it, like treat your employees as valuable people, I want to say for bosses, spend a day in each department with them and see what it's like. Because I know for a fact that bosses, talk to managers, not the employees, employees do not talk to managers about the serious issues, especially if their managers suck, boss, right? No idea what's going on, because you're not talking to the employees, managers, invest in management training, learn to be a good manager, ask people, how can you help them? How are things going, have an open door policy, be be proactive, instead of having to put fires out and reacting to things all the time, try and figure out what the problem is in the first place. So like, when we at the edible company, we would have the sales people pissed off at the delivery people. And we'd be like, let's have a sales manager, go ride with the delivery people and see what it's like to drop things off at the different stores, and see how maybe you can improve it. It's like, I would love for Jeff Bezos to go be an Amazon delivery person one day and see what it's like it is impossible for them. They have no time for anything. They're treated like robots. Their turnover is insane. cannabis industry has a major turnover problem. And every time you lose an employee, you're losing a ton of time and money. Yeah, it's so expensive. Like if you can keep people there, give them bonuses, give them appreciation have like, I mean, I wanted for a while to do like events where you take your team out to like a ropes course. And you make them do trust falls and stuff like fun. It should be fun. Yeah, people need to get to know each other outside of the office, so that they can communicate with each other department. interdepartmental communication is so important, and it's so lacking. And when there are people that are negative, and they they become toxic, that is not good, like at the edible company is that we lost our whole sales department three times in a row that by the third time, there was no one to train the new people.

Ronjini Joshua: 52:39

So it's like, it's like one person is toxifying. Like the whole thing?

Kristen Yoder: 52:44

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you treat employees as replaceable. And this is especially a problem in dispensaries. Because everyone wants to be a bud tender, it seems so fun, they don't get paid well enough. They don't get educated, they are seen as completely replaceable. And when you go to a job where you feel replaceable, you don't really care about anything. And when you need to do metric, and compliance stuff, you're not going to be on top of it. And then the company is going to pay a ton of money when they get audited, and all their numbers are off. And they can't explain what's going on. Like this is an industry wide problem. So I mean, here's an idea, like treat your employees, well pay them better, and try and actually invest in them with education. It's like my favorite managers are people that will say, Where do you see yourself in five years? Like how can I help you and your career development reach where you'd like to go? And it's like, Whoa, no one's ever even asked me that. Like, I've never even thought about that. And then it's like, it helps people feel like you actually care. Yeah, you know, so, but it's hard to care. Like when I was on my job, and I went in for my yearly review, and I was so overworked. I couldn't even think of like what to say like I couldn't come up with what was my value that I was bringing in? Because operational efficiency is an indirect profit thing. Like it's not like sales. I can't say I'm prove this or whatever. Right, right, right. And they offered me a 4% raise, and my soul died. Like right then and within two weeks, I quit because I'm like, you know what, you pay me enough for this shit. Like, I am done, bro. Like, you know what? Screw you. And they got rated twice because employees call cops on them. Oh, wow. Yeah, dude, you know what, like your ex mad ex employees can really mess it up. Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua: 54:51

absolutely.

Kristen Yoder: 54:52

So like, treat people well pay people better and you'll have a better running company. You know, and better. In the foundation of your company, and another thing is is like, what is the mission statement of the company? like nobody has one of these? How in the world are your employees supposed to know what the mission is? of the company? If there is nothing, you know, when every single person knows their role in the whole circle, and recognizes, like, this is what I do for this company, and this is what we are about. Yeah. People just they, I mean, this is why I hate publicly traded cannabis companies, you know, they're in it for the mergers and acquisitions, right? I'm not in it for good quality or anything like that, because they didn't even set up a solid foundation in the first place. They didn't make sure that they had good products and loyal customers, and said, they're just merge merge and trying to make more money for the shareholders. And they, it's like Enron, it's like, a stack of dominoes. They just fall in on themselves because it was toxic from the start, like med men. Yeah. Yeah. Toxic from the start. And then the vendors get screwed. The employees get screwed. investors get screwed. Everyone gets screwed. Yeah, it looked good for a little while. So why not just take it slow. start it off, right? build something sustainable? Do good. I mean, it's just like, so out of control. Like, I don't know, you know, like my co hosts for the confidant investor. His idea was to give me 10,000 to invest in cannabis. And I was like, dude, I literally couldn't sleep with myself. If I had to invest in cannabis companies like, they disgust me. I would never invest in publicly traded cannabis companies like, what can I need to invest in ethical companies? Do they exist? Yeah, yeah, even exist. And yeah, they're called esgs. And now that's what I'm learning about. But it's like, it's hard for me to be an investor in the stock market, when I have ethics, right? This is something, right.

Ronjini Joshua: 57:13

And then the ones that do have ethics grow so slowly, they're like really trying to be by the book. And then they, you know, they get hit with all this, like, Bs. So it's like, they get hit with a lot of BS, so they don't get the recognition that something like a publicly traded company would get, or the money that the pub, obviously the publicly traded company would get. And so their growth is slow and low. And it's a lot. It's hard. It Easy to support, but hard to make money off of someone who's telling the truth, which is a really sad

Kristen Yoder: 57:47

thing again, why are you in this industry? For the profit? Are you in it were the love of the plant and the people? And I think that it's apparent when you go to work at these companies, what they're in it for? Yeah. And for the sake of competing, like, his success going public is that success or success building something that you're proud of? Yeah, that everybody enjoys? That may not be where you're making millions of dollars. But what if it's good enough to have a strong following have happy employees have enough profit to like, go on vacation and to do things like, money is not everything, and especially money cannot find happiness? Especially when you have a really toxic workplace? So it's like, yeah, I mean, they're different people in this industry. And I don't support the profit based ones because they cut corners, and it sucks for everybody from the employees down. Yeah, pretty investors down. I mean, yeah, so if you're in it for mega growth, there's a saying, growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. That's capitalism. You know, if you're in it for growth, then you're not in it for the people or the plant, and people shouldn't support you. And that's where consumers have the power. Look, we didn't always have organic produce at the grocery store. Yeah. We asked for it. And then we got it. There's conventional produce, and there's organic, you support what you want. There's farmer markets, or there's chain stores. Yeah. You know, like, if you care as a consumer, then and if you can afford it, then support the brands that are different that support local farmers. I mean, in the end growers have been destroyed by the industry they get paid like nothing. There is no cannabis industry without cannabis, right. Get they paid like the most in regulation that cost the most upfront expenditure because Have all the labor and everything they get paid the least amount for their product because it gets stepped on at every level.

Sheldon: 1:00:07

That's the whole industry. Yeah,

Kristen Yoder: 1:00:09

exactly. And that's really sad. Yeah, no, like, I know that many, I don't know about many, but at least 10 people that I've heard of that took their lives after legalization in California, because they voted for it, and where they lived, decided not to regulate, and so they got ruined, they got destroyed by legalization. Like, we have our priorities messed up. And so all these cannabis advocates that want to deny reality, that are not fighting for the growers, they're not fighting for quality companies. It's just, it's sad. And that's why I talk about these things, because we have the power to do something about it, if we know about it, but if we don't, this is like a runaway train. It like makes me depressed to see how things are going. Because people aren't aware. So yeah, spirit

Sheldon: 1:01:04

of creating more educated, able to move communities, what would you say are your top three educational resources that everybody should know about?

Kristen Yoder: 1:01:15

resources? I mean, that's tough. Because there's so much bs out there. Um, I mean, I, I don't want to be like humble brag, or whatever. But I say listen to my podcast, the CannaBS Detector. There's a law blog called. I think it's the canna law blog. By Hilary, I mean, brick in Harris law. They're very good at breaking things down.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:01:44

We'll put the links in the show notes. Yeah,

Kristen Yoder: 1:01:47

yeah, I'll send you guys. Like the resources I look at Yeah, great. People should just try and be more active, get involved in things if you actually care, like, stop getting high and forgetting about this stuff. It's so easy to be pacified by the plant. Yeah. It's like a double edged sword in a way, you know, there's so I mean, our soul is dying in this industry. And our soul is what got us here. Like it was the soul of cannabis that kept fighting, even though they kept getting raided and going to jail. And like, Don't forget the people in prison, like fight for social equity and all these different things, because these are the people that got us where we are, and they're being brushed off completely by corporate cannabis. So vote with your dollars.

Sheldon: 1:02:42

I mean, this was a beautiful message to be educated to use the plan in a way that is balanced and lifts you up, not tears you down. And then to also look out for the people who are around you.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:02:53

Yeah. Yeah. Be nice. Be nice.

Kristen Yoder: 1:02:57

Don't be a dick. Yeah.

Sheldon: 1:02:59

I think that's better. that's the title. Don't be. Don't be a dick.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:03:04

Well, Kristen, I know we can talk forever. But like this is this has been so good. I really appreciate your insight and your feedback. And like, I totally agree with you. I think companies can do a lot better in cannabis in every industry, to be honest. But But yeah, I mean, this is a good time to start off on the right foot. And I appreciate like your advocacy, I think. I think people do need to hear it. So don't don't stop. Don't stop believing.

Kristen Yoder: 1:03:30

I mean, my goal is to be like the john oliver of the cannabis industry. Mainstream media like HBO or something. Yeah. You know, and like, just, I want to go beyond the cannabis industry. Yeah, about the cannabis industry. I just know that it will negatively impact corporations and good. Yeah. So if if I get murdered, listen to my podcast. Yes. It sounds like Yeah. Y'all know who did it?

Ronjini Joshua: 1:04:01

Yes, yes. Absolutely. Thank you, Kristin. It's been a pleasure speaking with you, and everybody, the show notes will be full of links. So check it out, check out Kristen's podcasts, podcasts, plural. And we'll have the links in the show notes for that, too. So thank you so much. And hopefully we'll get to talk again soon. Maybe on a panel or something. We'll kind of put something together when we have another big, big topic to talk about.

Kristen Yoder: 1:04:28

Yeah, sounds great. Thanks for having me.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:04:30

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