Ep 37: The Science Of Cannabinoid Extraction & Formulation. An interview w/ Greg Arias & Jason Showard, Co-founders of Concentrated Science

In today's episode,  we interviewed Greg Arias and Jason Showard Co-founders of Concentrated Science in Los Angeles, California.  We discuss the science of cannabinoid extraction and the world of possibilities in Cannabis. 

Concentrated Science will help your cannabis business at any stage from concept to completion.  Greg & Jason have a team of industry experts that are skilled in all aspects of extraction, post processing, and product formulation.  In this interview the duo go into detail about the science of extraction and why it actually matters what you put into your body.  There's a wide range of "quality" in the cannabis industry.  Do you know what's your products? Listen and learn about the exciting science that goes into making your favorite Cannabis & CBD products.

Connect w/ Greg & Jason:
www.concentratedscience.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-showard
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregory-arias

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua: 0:12

Sheldon, thank you so much for introducing us to these guys from concentrated science. We got a little bit more into the world of science and extraction from a chemical engineering standpoint, which is kind of mind blowing. Yeah. It's interesting, complicated, excited. At the same time. The guys were in their closets, but it turned out really. But yeah, this was a really cool conversation just about extraction and how people are white labeling stuff and how people can create new products and, and the chemical engineering that goes into this like kind of new world of possibilities with cannabis.

Sheldon: 0:52

I always wondered how people were just coming up with new products. But these are the guys is the ones who go, yeah, this

Ronjini Joshua: 0:58

is the guy. Hello, today we're here talking to the co founders of concentrated science Gregory areas, and Jason showered. Hi, guys, how are you? Hey, how are you? Good. So we're gonna get into a deep technical conversation about extraction. Yes,

Jason Showard: 1:22

that's our favorite con. Okay, cool.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:25

But first, we always start most of the Well, most all of the interviews with a quick background of everyone. So we like to hear how you what you were doing pre cannabis and how you decided to get into the cannabis industry like how you decided to like go full force. So whoever wants to start, I think, yeah, let's get let's start there. We lost Greg for a moment here.

Gregory Arias: 1:50

Sorry, I got I got I told this. I told this guy we were. I had a meeting right now. But let me let me. Let me see if I can.

Sheldon: 1:58

Actually, this is this is actually a good quick break. Because there are two of you. This will be the first time that we might have to ask like, please give detailed answers, but also be mindful of sharing space and making sure we get as much detail as possible, but not too much time. Yeah,

Jason Showard: 2:15

absolutely. Yeah. Greg and I talked a little bit about that beforehand. I said, Hey, man, I don't want to run all over you because I tend to do that. So let's, uh, we chatted about

Ronjini Joshua: 2:23

about all that. And can you also Greg, can you turn your camera or your phone? Whatever it is. Rotate it. Yeah. So it's Lance. That make that makes it that way. It'll be like full screen.

Gregory Arias: 2:37

I gotta readjust the clamps. Hold on. It's all about the clamping. It's all about the proper clamping. Let's Oh, I got Oh, I got to turn that. My

Jason Showard: 2:47

My favorite part about this is that it's a ring clamp lab stand that's being used. Oh, for the lab.

Ronjini Joshua: 2:54

Yes. There we go. We see that better?

Sheldon: 2:59

Raise

Ronjini Joshua: 2:59

up, raise it up.

Gregory Arias: 3:01

Okay, let me let's see if I can.

Sheldon: 3:05

Yeah, raise the clamps.

Ronjini Joshua: 3:07

You might want. I don't think we need to do a little video cutting. Oh, you didn't? Yeah,

Gregory Arias: 3:12

no, I was kind of I was like, they're doing zoom for a reason. But I didn't think it was gonna be like actual, an actual reason. Yeah, actual reason. Like, you're just gonna do zoom audio is silly, but that's okay. Let's go right there. Yeah, all right. Okay. All right. Cool. We'll

Ronjini Joshua: 3:29

just cut that part out. Um, so let's let's dive into your backgrounds.

Sheldon: 3:34

For Ben. Let's just do it again. And Troy.

Ronjini Joshua: 3:40

Okay, hello. We're here today with the co founders of concentrated science Gregory Arias , and Jason Showard. Hi, guys. Nice to see you. Hey, good. Good, good. And, and today, we're going to be diving into the world of extraction. So I'm very excited about talking about all the different elements here. But before we get started, we'd like to start with a little background of how people and what people were doing before they did cannabis and then how you guys decided to take the full leap into the cannabis industry. So whichever one of you want to speak first, let's get going.

Jason Showard: 4:17

Greg's a little more pertinent than i to the whole world here. So let's go ahead Greg.

Gregory Arias: 4:23

Yeah, but But you're the one that brought me here so well, I guess that is that's a good that's a good that's a good reason. Good enough reason. I started How would that be ouch these seven years ago, I graduated from Arizona state with my Master's in chemical engineering. So I always had a, you know, rigorous scientific need to figure things out in chemical field at least. I started right after college I started to work in a distillery a liquor distillery so I was making vodka, gin rum, whiskey standard and also distillery in Phoenix, Arizona, that for about five years, then Jason called me up. This was limiting startling backtrack for a second I took a little sidestep while I was in the distillery, I was I got introduced to the cannabis world through supercritical extraction. So that's a whole whole other field whole other animal. But I had dabbled in the field for about about half a year there in Arizona, and it was still very, you know, very regulated, very difficult to get. make ends meet with the lab there. So that was a flash in the pan sort of thing. And then Jason and I had kept in contact over over the years we had originally met through Burning Man 2015. coming for 14 2015 I'm, so it's all it's all a blur.

Sheldon: 6:00

extraction.

Gregory Arias: 6:05

But yeah, so we have known each other for about four years prior for five years prior to me moving out here. Jason had been working in the field for a couple years, I won't get too much into SEO, explain his Of course, but then he called me up. I moved out here in July 2019. And had helped Jason with research in the field of pesticide remediation, things like that. terpene creation and terpene flavor creation, and just general hard, hard science to back up his his mechanical expertise. So that's where we kind of met in the middle. And that's where we've always seen eye to eye is I start, I start things in the lab, we'll you know, start things together. But then I'll bring it from the lab and then he'll take and blow it up.

Ronjini Joshua: 7:01

So when you say chemical engineering, just real quick going back to your background, how I like to explore the different jobs you can have in this industry. So like when you say chemical engineering, what exactly does that mean? Like? What are the types of things a chemical engineer would do in the cannabis industry?

Gregory Arias: 7:19

So I'm in the cannabis industry and basically any and in

Ronjini Joshua: 7:25

liquor I guess,

Gregory Arias: 7:28

to be to give a broad sense of what chemical engineering is, it's, they were given it's, it's slightly a little more focused than mechanical engineering. Mechanical Engineering literally goes into any any direction, any field, you can go and pick it's, I believe in college, we would call it the, the slot of the engineering world for lack of better words, because they could just make it just be picked up by anybody at any time. And just go and I guess I guess I'm making planes now. I guess we're making computer chips now. It's just what we do. But chemical engineers typically are they more aligned with the food industry? That's that's their main broad use food. And then unfortunately, and I didn't want to forget into this this is why I was always kind of leaning towards laboratory science and things. It's the weapons industry, though the weapons chemical, chemical warfare bombs, isn't that and I don't know. Yeah, that obviously, but but the food industry is where we end up I remember in that, right out of college, a lot of jobs open up in the Midwest, because they want engineers to just make very simple ingredients, you know, sugar, like figure out how to make how to dissolve sugar or extract sugar properly, and then do it for the entire country doing for the entire world. So it's, it's, it's, it's more or less extrapolation a very simple lab scale projects, like I said, and bring it to the large scale, but as far as in the cannabis realm, it's, it's, it's exactly the same thing. Really, it's taking the principles that we know, concentration extraction, what types of chemicals are good or best for extraction, and then giving it either you yourself or giving it to a team of engineers to expand that and you know, do it tenfold? 1000 volt million called scale Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. scale it up. Yep. So So it's, it's, it's nice to have Jason being the already doing things on scale all the time. He was, you know, being in production. He's used to production scale things. It's kind of funny how they all kind of meet in the middle. They're all they're all the same terms. We use the same terminology a lot in the end where he started versus where I started. So it's it's it's fun that it's it's all it's all we're all just trying to produce things. We're we're both just creators at heart, I think. What is

Sheldon: 9:59

it that you're doing before

Jason Showard: 10:00

So for me, I was kind of all over the place, I went to school for sound engineering. And then you know, it's a lot of a lot of knob twists and, and similar situations to what you got going on in a lab. But I've always kind of been the get it done guy. And you know if something needed to happen, I'm the guy that figured out how to make it happen and make it happen at scale. So I got asked, I was actually working in television and film art department, leading up to my foray into extraction, which had nothing to do with extraction or audio engineering. And now it's kind of come full circle to hosting an extraction podcast using the audio skills. So basically, yeah, what I had a friend that was putting together an ethanol extraction lab, when ethanol was new on the scene to extraction asked me to help out from more of a nuts and bolts angle, which is typically what I am the go to guy for. And then as things started to come together, everybody realized that it was a lot more technical, from a physics standpoint, and from a nuts and bolts standpoint, then then it was really from the scientific standpoint, it wasn't, it wasn't rocket science. I mean, it was still very, very scientific, but it was something that I managed to pick up. And since I knew how, really all the nuts and bolts of the equipment worked, I decided to stick around and then really make it my focus to, to learn the science side of things. And then Greg and I started talking more and more about that. So I've gotten kind of a crash course in, in, in chemistry, for cannabis from Greg, while while really understanding the nuts and bolts side of the business and, and the production side, when it comes to the sound and the promotional things with the

Sheldon: 11:51

podcast, what a perfect pairing. What really

Ronjini Joshua: 11:55

what made you want to get into cannabis, though,

Jason Showard: 12:00

I have always been a fan. It it, there was a period of a few years where things started to get so strong. And that I was actually a little bit less interested in it than I was in my younger years. And realizing that we had control over that and could really kind of, you know, design the effects that it was going to have. And, you know, not making it as strong as humanly possible, maybe the right way to go, especially for myself. So just the the ability to have control over that just fascinated me from the standpoint of what we could do in the lab and not necessarily having you know, you don't go to a bar in order, what's the strongest booze you got behind the bar? It's, you know, craft craft made. So I realized that we had control over that. And I was really fascinated by so are you guys getting

Ronjini Joshua: 12:53

into the business of like designer weed?

Gregory Arias: 12:56

We liked it, we always have been floating that just This is Jason I mean, we we want to make those really nice products for you know, people that are paying Atlanta like not not for you know, just to be snooty about it. But people that really care about it, like we, you know, and it's it's a difficult line to tread, of course, because the more you you pigeonhole yourself into being a craft person, you're going to cut it into the very few center of people that do care like us. And it's just, we want to do that, you know, eventually, maybe maybe when we, you know, after we're retired and everything, we've got a nice little, you know, plot of land in Mexico or something.

Jason Showard: 13:37

On the flip side of that, I would say that we we have the ability as cannabis lab folks in general to really influence the direction this goes. And right now the direction that it's gone is how can we make it as strong as possible? And really, that's just, is that really what people want? Yeah, I mean, for myself, it's not. So I think that the, you know, the more of these things that we introduce, or the more of these things that we can work on, as a an industry, it really, potentially allows for us to change the narrative from how strong Can I make it to, you know, how can I actually affect how this works with my own biology?

Ronjini Joshua: 14:17

Well, I like that you brought that up, like what is going on with this trend of like, what is the most highest highest THC content possible? And like, there's all these brands that are coming out that are really, really, really focused on that? Why do you think that's happening?

Gregory Arias: 14:34

I personally think that much like the liquor industry, we had gotten once we get to a point where the equipment has caught up to the industry and you get 99.9% pure, there's always the people like Okay, how about 99.99 you know, let's make it even more. Let's get those margins up. Let's keep going. Let's get stronger. Let's get more and we can cut it more we can get More we can get more we can get more but then it's like, it's almost just like it's a diminishing return after a certain point, because what's that extra point nine, nine, you don't get to notice it after point. I think I think we're in sort of the kid in a candy store phase, if you will. And just just like alcohol, I mean, that there's a point. I mean, we've we've had things like everclear for a long time. Yeah. But again, like Jason said,

Ronjini Joshua: 15:20

it's not we don't go around drinking everclear Yeah.

Gregory Arias: 15:24

The strongest thing I need to black out right now. It's like, no, there's a little bit more nuance to it. And I think that right now, because we are in the in the cutting edge, we are in the forefront, we are seeing that it's just people are, are testing their lives, testing the limits of the consciousness, so to speak as a whole. And what what will you know, I guess maybe college years is better word, we're gonna call it years of cannabis. experimentation again, so and again, we'll get to the point where it's like, okay, the guy made the best machine that guy's making 99.99999. Where you get where we get 100? What do we do from that?

Jason Showard: 16:09

I'd like to add to that, though, like that. We're certainly not against isolation and purifying compounds. I love the idea of 99.9999%. Yeah, but now we can take these different compounds and reformulate them into a mix that works well for different people's biology. So that's the part that's interesting to me, you know, there's, every day there's a new letter tacked on to THC, this or that. And so, you know, there's all these different compounds that as as now that we're not under prohibition, we're being able to research and identify and then see how they affect us. So being able to remix all of these things together to work for various different people. Some people want the highest THC possible, and that's okay. But, you know, having that be the exposure that someone new to cannabis gets, I think is a very dangerous thing, and is going to reject a lot of people that are interested in and that may otherwise be benefited by.

Ronjini Joshua: 17:07

Right. Yeah, I mean, that that is a little dangerous to play with, especially when since there's so much lack of knowledge. Right now. I mean, we're talking to a lot of people about educating the market. And so without that education, how can you really like why would you go to the worst, or the highest level possible if you haven't even like taking the baby steps yet?

Sheldon: 17:27

Yeah, yeah. So you to work, obviously, with the chemical side of cannabis. What other qualities should people be talking about outside of CBD, THC of the plant? Oh, man,

Ronjini Joshua: 17:43

t CBM CB as

Jason Showard: 17:45

every day, there's another one that comes out, which is fantastic. And really cool. Love it another number? Yeah. But, you know, I think, you know, the, the term entourage effect is getting a little bit of backlash these days, where it was all the buzzword for a while, yeah, but there's a lot of other things that influence and drive the experience that you know, the terpenes and the various terpenes that will make you feel a different ways and kind of shaped the higher that you get, or the, you know, the beneficial aspects of it as well. So that, you know, I think CBN is about to be real big and hit the market pretty hard for its ability to affect sleep. And there's just there's all kinds of cool stuff that people are learning every day, that we're all learning every day. And that's it's just an exciting thing to be part of. I mean, Greg, do you have something to add on there?

Gregory Arias: 18:35

Yeah, I was gonna say, Jason, you you always I forgot what it was, it was it was a sugar, a sugar mighty, I think is what you pulled off to me one one day it's about a bioavailability is what I've been been looking into as well. It's it's allowing more efficient absorption and direction for what she wants to do with those cannabinoids. So taking taking a certain type of carrier oil carrier substance and binding it or just combining it with the cannabinoids to properly get it to the right site in your body or absorbed better, more efficiently to do the action properly. So there's multiple different ways 1000s of different ways you could go with the same idea of cannabinoid usage, but there's the the new fields that are showing up are just are just fascinating from the, you know, synthetic side to the more natural sides to you know, terpene correlations, it's it's it's all there and I think that there is plenty of research to be done still, and especially more than anything I was actually just reading because I'm doing a side projects, speaking on bioavailability that the FDA currently doesn't recognize Any CBD products except separate one over the counter drug as a drug, but we're getting, it's just one of those things that again, education, knowing people, knowing people are getting safe products from a safe place, and that they're dosed properly by, you know, educated and knowledgeable people, or at least regulated and known that these things can be given, given with with a clear conscience and taken with a clear conscience. So it's getting there. And again, I bet that changing people's minds about that, I guess,

Ronjini Joshua: 20:35

well, you were talking about bioavailability. And, and a lot of times, we talked to people who want to talk about, you know, extraction, and this, I think this goes for vitamins too, in general, but like extraction versus like, the full plant experience, like how do you how do you simulate an experience like that, if you're extracting, and make, you know, what you're talking about, make it make it more, I don't know, wholesome, if that's the right word, with an extraction versus like having a plant available?

Gregory Arias: 21:10

So my, my, my thought behind that, and I guess it's more of an existential question at this point, you know, when you if you reassess if you if you take a part of ship, and reassemble it exactly the same configuration, but you're missing a bolt, is it the same ship. So it's one of those things but my hate my my thought always was, and this this was from ASU, actually, they have the entire engineering and science side over there. But one of the places I studied is the bio design Institute, and it was looking towards nature for solutions to our problems. So basically modeling what nature already did, because as far as I'm concerned, nature already perfected it, we enjoy its God. And nature isn't perfect, but it's perfecting it, it's always perfecting it, it's always going to be making the better thing as we go along. So if you take the extract from nature, and from a strict chemical sense, going back to the boat analogy earlier, if you take, if you take the distillate out of the plant concentrated and then you can control it control the way that you deliver it, control the way that you and take it whatever way it is. But you take the exact chemical structures that were in the plan, say you were able to molecule by molecule take and put that back together? Would you still have the same plant? I guess the question, would you would it still be wholesome, and that's where I figure, I think that we have a bit of that. Chase Jackson, I have that sort of chase to get back to that like, like, bring it out, and like take it all apart and put it back in, you know, like lay light, like really, like reassemble it from the ground up in the way that we imagine it.

Ronjini Joshua: 22:54

Right. And I

Jason Showard: 22:56

think that that's a really interesting approach. But also, something I would add to that is, you know, if you're talking about a full spectrum, or whole plant experience, that's going to give you that experience that's going to provide those benefits, it's going to provide those disadvantages, you know, it's going to have its that is what it's going to be. But that that full experience isn't necessarily what's best for various things that you're trying to treat with cannabinoids, especially from a medical standpoint. So you know, where if, if you're trying to affect your sleep specifically and want to sleep better at night, and you want to go after CBN, the amount of CBN that really exists in a plant is going to be very low. So you know, we have by by being able to extract these things and isolate these things, we have the ability to really kind of tailor what effect you're trying to go after. Whereas if you just go for the full plant, then you're going to be stuck with whatever that strain that you're that you're consuming is and what its effects are. So there's definitely something to be said for the full plant experience. But, you know, as we do more research and learn more about what the various cannabinoids can do, we have the ability to tailor that a little bit more to what you're looking for.

Ronjini Joshua: 24:14

So yeah, so Okay, that that kind of plays into my vitamin question, but I'm gonna go back a little bit and just kind of okay, so as you're doing these extractions, and who exactly are you guys working for? So like, what, what is where do you play in the chain of events when working with companies or, or whoever you're working for, like, what where do you guys live?

Jason Showard: 24:46

Basically, you know, if somebody is trying to accomplish a thing, that they're trying to figure out how to do, be it, isolating certain compounds that are found in the plant be isolating terpenes via You know, whatever it is that they're after. That's something that Greg is very good at working with them at to develop a process when it comes to that. And then once we kind of nail it on a lab scale, then it's how do we make this larger and more efficient, so that we can do it on a larger scale. So we kind of work very closely hand in hand in that respect, you know, I'm, I'm definitely no stranger to sticking around the lab. But But I'm more of a wall to bounce ideas off of, and to kind of chat with and, and I learned something every time I work with them in the lab, and then we'll take that and make it larger for a company that's interested in doing, you know, something tailored on a larger scale.

Ronjini Joshua: 25:42

So you're working with, like, essentially brands that want to create some kind of custom experience or product. Yeah, okay. And what what does that usually look like? Is it like, do you guys have a specialty where you work in like, you know, I don't know, beauty or edibles or what like, what where do you guys work in that aspect? Or does it really matter?

Gregory Arias: 26:03

Yeah, so So currently, I'm helping a formulation for a mutual friend of ours company high on nature. So it's just it's just lab formulations, but for the most part, I mean, it's it's, we, we move where we need where we're needed, where that's that's the, you know, I guess the beauty of consulting freelance, as Yeah, I never thought I'd be able to say but freelance chemistry, it's so weird. firms that I always, like, thrown around together. And it's a that never made sense to me, because I was like I said, You needed like a home base, a lab or something like that. But it's like, we we go and we provide solutions to people in their lab. It's like we get with what's working here is not going to necessarily work in Colorado. For instance, one one thing that we we just went to a visit a friend of Jason's lab up in Denver area. was what was it called? Flora bio? Flora Flora bio. That's right. Yeah. Shout out to Mike. Mike. Yeah, shout out to my Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: 27:07

All the marketing people are gonna come after you guys, you guys are the worst PR. You don't know. We don't know for a lot to say any of these names, but we're just gonna throw them out.

Jason Showard: 27:18

Michael, take my PR nightmare

Gregory Arias: 27:20

represent the mean, we're helping, we want to help we want everybody to get together. I mean, the only way that we're going to get this to solve all these problems solve is, is through collaboration, really. And I mean, I think that being able to go to other places and see how other people are doing it, it really gives us not not necessarily like in, you know, malicious insider information that we're just going to go ahead and take and spread and proliferate to people but allows us to extract the right things that we need from from people and say, Hey, this is what we've seen over here, right? Maybe a few and then and then trade you know, it's it's all this what we're working towards the same goal, right? It's just it's just different different boats in a different kind of keep using boats got to get up different to what do we got? We got the best best now like what Kathy, it's got to be something better than that. There's nothing that what do we have to do?

Sheldon: 28:32

The question, what are we need to get above maybe need to get above? Now, what are some of the hurdles that you guys have encountered in doing your research in getting deeper into extraction?

Jason Showard: 28:45

Um, things don't always scale the way that you expect them to, you know, you'll find something at lab scale and be like, Great. Now let's make it bigger. And then it just flows out a linear, a linear conversion situation. Yeah, you have to, you run into new hurdles as you try to make something bigger. And then as you try to make that bigger thing bigger yet again, there's always going to be differences. You know, there's so much in the way of thermodynamics at play here, where we're, we're working with temperatures and times that it takes to get to certain temperatures and, and vacuums and pressures and all these different things that at a small scale and things get there quickly. Great. That's how it works when they get there quickly. But at a larger scale. They don't get there that fast. Or if if they don't now we have to figure out a solution to get them there that fast. So there's just there's a lot of things that are at play there when it comes to scale, I think is one of the biggest hurdles. People think it's gonna be easy. And it's never that easy. There's been many times where, where we've been asked about something and we'll say, yeah, we can help you with that. And then somebody's like, Oh, no, you know, we got this. We already do it at this scale. And then days later, we get the phone calls. Hey, can you guys come over after

Ronjini Joshua: 30:00

It's like eating up three bean burritos instead of just one bean burrito. You

Jason Showard: 30:03

know, that is the best you can apply to that ever. Yes. 100%

Gregory Arias: 30:08

I I'm a bean burrito aficionados that speak so you know, you appreciate that,

Ronjini Joshua: 30:13

but he isn't evenly distributed, you're still frozen,

Gregory Arias: 30:19

you're gonna get a pocket in between it's, it's just the whole nightmare. That's like just just grilling. This puts your bean burrito on the on the plate your your tortilla plate, because everybody has a tortilla plate anyway.

Jason Showard: 30:31

Nobody wants a cold center for a canal.

Ronjini Joshua: 30:34

No, no, exactly. Okay, so you're talking about scalability and how there's so different, like, you know, aspects to that. And we talked about in our conversation before, about sustainability as well, and how important that is, and what the major players are in that whole concept. Can you talk about that a little bit? And as brands are, you know, now producing more and more, you know, how, how can they stay sustainable? What, what are the methods that are the best practices that they need to be looking at for that?

Jason Showard: 31:07

I think, Oh, go ahead, Greg.

Gregory Arias: 31:09

Oh, yeah, no, I was gonna say the main, the main that I see is just proper, proper handling of solvents, is making sure that you're recovering them efficiently, you have the right tools in place to contain them. If spills occur, if there's some sort of, you know, just general emergency just anticipating that if something goes wrong with a solvent or something, something about the solvent escapes, because it's the most part, you know, ethanol is relatively harmless for, you know, for in the right doses. But it's, it can be dangerous, to just be let out into the environment at any time and evaporated, contact with with surface water, anything like that. So just to make sure that you can efficiently and safely contain that. And not to mention fire risk never done on top of everything else. That's I think the main thing, and it's a couple along with that. To maintain sustainability, recovery of solvent, not all not only what's the word, not only holding on to solvent and keeping it safely stored, but also reuse of solvent. So yeah, it's it's making sure that you're able to, because because all the solvents that we use can be recycled and reused for the most part. So if you can take that and reuse it multiple times, then that's, that's obviously the way to go and to maintain sustainable production.

Jason Showard: 32:44

So yeah, I would also add to that, what you said, basically, a re condensing and recapturing and reuse is huge. But inevitably, we're going to generate waste at night with with this business coming from a black market originally, into a gray market now, now into the light. A lot of the infrastructure wasn't just readily available right there in the beginning of all this to deal with the waste. So responsibly, dealing with waste is something that that I think, is not looked at, with as much scrutiny as it should be. And there's a lot of companies out there that can do that. We work with Pacific resource recovery out of LA, who is awesome. And they have a bunch of folks that work directly with cannabis producers that will collect their waste materials and bring them to prr. So you've got like, specialized waste solutions out of San Diego is one and then up north guy aka and in the Bay Area and up north are great companies that will come to your facility, collect your waste, and then bring them to a place to be responsibly disposed of. And a lot of that stuff they can recycle, which is great.

Ronjini Joshua: 34:01

Yeah, I mean, this this conversation we actually had earlier today was on this waste topic, which I think is such a I don't think people probably don't, that's not the first thing you think like, oh, we're gonna have to responsibly get rid of this waste because it you know, presumably, it's organic. So why can't we just, you know, composted or do something like that. So can you talk a little bit more about the waste issues and maybe how they play into not just sustainability, but just like, you know, environment and like things that need to be considered when doing that.

Jason Showard: 34:37

Basically, I mean, if you're doing let's say you're doing ethanol extraction, the typical way that you're doing that is you are going to mill your biomass, you're gonna put it in your bag, you're gonna freeze that you're gonna put it in a centrifuge, you know, pump a bunch of ethanol into the centrifuge, spin it around, agitate it, get all the oil off of it. Now you're draining the oil off. Now you spin the centrifuges just like your washing machine does to get as much of that liquid out of there as possible. And now you're left with a bag that is pretty dry, but still has some residual ethanol in it, when as soon as you take that out of your centrifuge, you now have a very flammable, basically like sponge type material that's got a bunch of ethanol and alcohol vapor in there. Now originally that wasn't really looked at as something that we had to deal with people would just stick it next to event and blow it out of the room. Like, that's crazy. So there's, you know, that is one source of waste, which is actually biomass that people don't really look at as waste, there's a few different ways to deal with that. There's, there's, you know, there's screw presses, and palletizers, and things like that, that will really thoroughly get all of the ethanol off of that biomass. And then it can be used for things like compost, and for various other things, fuels, whatever. That's an expensive process. Not everybody's going to do that unless they're at mega scale. And so then oftentimes, that gets packed up into a drum and sealed and then given to a waste disposal company. So that's one form of waste, they're another form of waste is not all of your, all of your solvents that are leftover, sometimes the terpenes, you know, you can't just extract a bunch of terpenes and dump them down the drain, because they're organic, like, these are volatile compounds after they've been extracted. So there's a lot of parts that, you know, in small amounts in a plant aren't a big deal. But once you've concentrated the equivalent of, you know, a truckload of biomass into something that's in a five gallon bucket, now it's a problem.

Ronjini Joshua: 36:45

Yeah, I think I think that's like environment, then environmental factors is not it's not something that we like, normally just come first associate ourselves with, especially as a consumer or as an operator, like people who are not growing or, or, or chemically doing anything with the plant itself. Like, I think that's something that we just don't realize, like, that is an industry consideration. And, and I think it's something that's, you know, just like the farming industry, or any other, you know, organic industry, agriculture, you know, it's something that we have to factor in or consider as one of the things that people are going to be looking at as this industry gets bigger. What do you guys see as that? Yeah, go ahead, Greg.

Gregory Arias: 37:28

Yeah, I was gonna just just add on to that. Yeah, I was, I guess, education and familiarity with what you're working with, yeah, real things. For instance, with with what Jason's talking about with the ethanol extraction, a common solvent added to the ethanol to D nature is happening for this just for just for a broad example. So heptane is no known contaminant. It's a known bio accumulator. It's supposed to, it's I don't know if it's proven, but studies have been showing that it does accumulate over time in your own body, and it'll just, it just doesn't go away. You know, it's it's one of those things that over time, you know, the right now currently, we're just we're okay with it, but you know, just keeps flashing on you a little bit at a time a little bit at a time. And especially, not just yourself, but the entire environment, you've got a big problem after a certain time. So it's just more than anything, really knowing where everything's coming from. Is this you know, is this what it says? It is? Is that are the chemicals that you're getting? And what what they are saying they're purporting to be? And are you educated enough slash Are you are you willing enough to take the time to learn about the proper disposal of these chemicals, like Jason said, with with terpenes it's like, no important down the drain at least have if anything, if at the bare minimum, have a drum where you can put your terpenes that you aren't using and then take them to your your local waste disposal just just just make sure that they don't get out just make sure that they aren't proliferate proliferate it somewhere else, because it's not good. It's none of those none of those things need to be in that concentration out in the environment like that. So it's just this carrying a little bit you know,

Ronjini Joshua: 39:16

do you guys offer like a level of best practices when you're working with brands or companies or or whoever you're working with? Do you guys do any advice on on that aspect?

Gregory Arias: 39:28

Yeah, absolutely. We don't want I mean, this is this is all we got we got to get this one world is for for now and for for the foreseeable future. And you you can't just if if one person does a better thing, but you know, one person is not just doing it, it's easy to let things slip through the cracks. So it's like you there's there's a certain way to do things the right way to do things. So just where we at least offer them like hey, you gotta cautionary as much as we can. We All right, educated, we do care. And we want people to continue to operate a good, safe, sustainable business, because that's that's the only way that we're going to keep reaping the fruits of these rewards that we have,

Jason Showard: 40:12

in our approach also like to answer your question more directly is, is that of the the full facility, you know, we're not just there to do a lab scale thing. We're not just there to do a scale. It's come in, look at what's going on. Since we've been around the block and seen so many different ways to do things and done them. Hey, look, I think that you could use a better waste disposal program, check it out, we open the Rolodex up and have three different companies we can direct you to, you know, hey, I think that you could use a better reactor vessel here. These are your options for reactor vessels. These are all the companies that make them these are different price ranges. Which way do you want to go? We can we can help make whichever one of these work for you. So it's not necessarily, you know, a one size fits all situation, but just having been exposed and around the industry as much as we have. It's, we know what the best, the best solution for you is, after we've seen your operation.

Ronjini Joshua: 41:14

Well, given that what what kind of trends are you seeing right now? What are people asking for? What What have you guys been, you know, getting requests for what's going on, and in this extraction space, what's exciting.

Jason Showard: 41:28

I mean, to start off, I'd say, when we first got into it, it's kind of come full circle. Originally BHO or butane hash oil was the way everything started. That was how people started just disposing of their waste product, which was the trim, and realize that they could make a concentrate that actually have value. And that was exciting to everybody. So there was wild west of just some really bad practices and crazy, crazy wild been out there doing open blasting and unsafe practices, whatever, but it was an unregulated market. So that happened, then butane got a really bad name, hydrocarbon extraction and General co2 came along and co2 was the you know, the the way to do it with safe materials, using your process and safe solvents. Although they were at very high pressures, they were not explosive or flammable. So and then enter ethanol extraction and ethanol is fantastic at making distillate or isolette. So with that, you don't have the same craft ability that you have when you're doing a butane extraction or hydrocarbon extraction. There's all kinds of different gas mixes these days. So the trend has been it went from BHO into ethanol and everybody was after distillates. And then it was how do we mix terpene blends into these distillates to make vape carts and all these stuff. And then after the whole vape crisis hit, and all the confusion surrounding that it kind of circled back around to the hydrocarbon side of things. And that's where you're seeing a lot of your craft concentrates come out and a lot of these like really, you know, less scalable, but more more craft beer than Budweiser. It's kind of the trend where it's going these days. And you know i think it's it's looking like that is staying strong but it's also coming back around to to isolating different cannabinoids, oftentimes which is done with ethanol and then purification steps after that so it kind of depends on which direction you're going

Ronjini Joshua: 43:28

well Do you have any any trends that you're seeing Greg

Gregory Arias: 43:34

Yeah, no that's that seems to be pretty pretty succinct summary it's it's uh it's it's cyclical like like the fashion or anything like that it's just you know, people I don't know I don't want to say necessarily scandals or no news is bad news sort of thing that's more or less you know, people I would say just this may perhaps perhaps all the news has been giving us a short attention span or something but yeah, it's it we had noticed huge decline and then just now coming into the tides it's just people want people all the sudden wants on distillate again, people don't people do this, people do that. And it's like, it's it's, it's following a lot of I guess trend chasing and demands but yeah, do you see now I guess forward thinking yeah, the the the new ones the the Delta the Delta 10 CBN CBG all of again all of your put a number put a letter and just go just go for just throw a dart at the board you'll probably heaven can have annoyed Yeah. I think that that's an IF and then that's going along with what Jason saying is that the Crafty or more tuneable side so to speak, because then now you can have you know, 70% CBN blend 30% CBD blend for back pain or, you know, just just just however we want to do it to to really tailor it to specific groups of people at this point.

Ronjini Joshua: 44:53

Well, good, good.

Jason Showard: 44:55

Well, one more thing that that is a bit of a trend in the extraction space right now. Is conversions and there's a big to do about whether conversions are acceptable whether they're unacceptable how it falls under DEA guidelines and the farm bill and all this stuff it's big news right now but it's basically there's there's the ability to kind of Greg uses an analogy all the time about molecular Legos but basically reassemble CBD isolate that's been created on mass scale with you know combines harvesting the stuff and giant extraction processes to create the CBD isolate which is the crystalline CBD powder and then take that and kind of reassemble that a little bit into delta eight, delta nine and delta 10 so that is a big thing. That's a trend right now and everybody's looking for guidance as to whether it's acceptable or not. Well,

Ronjini Joshua: 45:53

and that was actually the question I was about to ask you is about Delta eight like I've not I've not really I don't I can't say I know a lot about Delta eight and delta nine and all the numbers but what is like why why has that become such a big news item and and and I hear a lot of people in the cannabis industry that are just so against it and there's some people that are excited to buy it. So what is the big controversy there and is like, you know, I heard it's like leave the legal form of weed like is that really true and what what is true? What isn't true?

Jason Showard: 46:33

This we're Go ahead. We're all looking for guidance on that we don't know from a legality standpoint. Yeah, I mean, everybody wants to know

Gregory Arias: 46:42

we can we can speculate for sure because we we went to that conference in Denver the CBD Expo in Denver recently and yeah, I think that there is again just working we're working pretty intimately in the space a lot a lot of information and misinformation out there as this as is anything anything on the cutting edge of course people are going to be afraid of it or people are going to try and hype it up unnecessarily there's going to be just multiple different directions people can spin it because of the current uncertainty in the market. I do have a feeling though that yeah, it's good some Would you like to explain maybe to explain a little bit what Delta eight is? Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: 47:24

From a chemical standpoint of yours Yeah,

Gregory Arias: 47:27

absolutely. So um, delta delta H Delta nine THC is the most known one, that's the one we extract from cannabis, that's our that's our everybody's favorite, you know, the the standard Delta eight is what's called a structural isomer meaning that the electron literally one electron is in a different position in the upper left benzene ring, sorry, cyclical hydrocarbon ring up at the top. So it does slightly different effects, both for our analytical equipment and in our minds. So again, you can take a 910 six, seven or more or less commonly 12345 or six, but we just started with the nine because that's just the method of convention that we had at the time, but there's there's multiple names for the same exact molecule and two, just as a sidebar. CBD is also a structural isomer of delta nine they're they're the exact same chemical formula same molecular weight, it's just the electrons are moving around in different places and it's just the DNR how it is observed in space. So they'll say it has been described as slightly a toned down version of delta nine it's a little less I guess, psychoactive if you will it's not not as much of a high but you do feel the the nicer like relaxation the pain killing all this all the things without necessarily giving just you know completely out there paranoid and again Don't get me wrong if you try if you try to do it you'll get there you know those properly those those to yourself those thing if you know yourself know your limits know your body you're going to reach the positive benefits of it but it's it's it's more of a like like a toned down version just like I always hear the term up for CBN for instance, I always hear it is the the dad the dad weed because it's usually found in older like multicharts this stuff that you'd find in your dad's garage and after sitting there for 20 years he forgot. Just sleeping but I guess that's it. I'm kind of hungry I guess but

Ronjini Joshua: 49:52

like it's like a Frankenstein of like, just like you said letters and numbers and like it just people are just creating all kinds of crazy shit.

Gregory Arias: 50:02

It's already there. It's already there. It's like, like, it's already existing. It's just we're finding and that's so cool. Like, we're just now being able to have the capacity and the wherewithal and the the ability to study that. And that's just that's, that's great. I think that that's just what we need more of that is more tools in the toolbox right

Sheldon: 50:22

now, how do you go about testing these new chemical compounds? safely?

Jason Showard: 50:28

Can I throw one other Greg's kind of broken down the science behind it, I think a lot of what's going on in the politics and the news and all of that stuff, I might be able to speak to a little bit. But basically, the the cannabis lobby is against it, usually, because it is a threat to D nine, or delta nine THC, which is the the standard, what we're all used to when we talk about THC. So that can cause you know, it's a threat to their business. And then as far as the legality side of things, I guess I should say, I'm I'm not a lawyer, but I may play one on zoom. But I have absolutely not a lawyer. But basically, what's going on is with the Farm Bill, the farm bill in 2018, allowed for hemp or hemp derived products to be transported across state lines, which is really what set off the whole CBD thing and blew things up, allowed farmers to grow giant swaths of hemp, and then turn that into CBD and move that across state lines in order to to be able to have a nationwide market, as long as it was under point 3% THC. So because of this, it's a bit of a loophole in the farm bill that D eight can be transported across state lines and sold, falling under that farm bill, we think. And that's kind of where you're seeing a lot of these states that are not recreationally legal for delta nine, seeing a huge uptick in delta eight, because it falls underneath this loophole in the bill now are, are they going to change that? Nobody knows. Does that loophole actually exist? Nobody is 100% sure, but we're pretty sure that it does. And so there's a lot of business being done in that sector because of this and nobody really knows what the outcome of this of it is. And we're all looking for guidance on it because it's a big part of the industry right now.

Sheldon: 52:33

So hypothetically one could create a GMO patented seed that only produces Delta eight THC and sell that hypothetically speaking that's true

Gregory Arias: 52:46

Absolutely. Yeah, so it's it's it that's again where we where we come in me me personally again to speak on the political aspect of it it's it's extremely frustrating to see that this chemical that is it's literally identical literally identical to one another and one is legal one is not one time is this one's not this one is this it's just it's the same

Ronjini Joshua: 53:18

I do like these these kind of trends impact the overall market.

Jason Showard: 53:22

Oh, huge. I mean, saying Yeah, the D nine market is is very concerned about their market share Yeah, lost to delta eight but I would say the majority of the issue here is is I guess more on the fact that the biggest places we're seeing it are places that have denied banned or are or only medically legal but but even worse places where you can buy D nine at a dispensary there's a whole tax structure around the you know the green tax on cannabis that is just brutalizing the market yeah and then these guys are flying under the radar with with DEA and not getting taxed. So there's there's quite a you know, it's a very polarizing topic I personally like the eight because I you know as I said before, lightweight and it's great so but at the same time like I understand the the politics and both sides of the coin were like you know it's very polarizing but I'm I'm kind of in the middle honestly which is hard

Ronjini Joshua: 54:28

to be yeah

Gregory Arias: 54:29

i i'm i'm on the this this this let let let the kids have their have to have their fun and this

Jason Showard: 54:37

is all gonna be federally legal eventually anyway. Exactly. Exactly.

Gregory Arias: 54:40

It's like it's in it's like it's adult it's all struggle and speculation right now and we're all getting wisdom it's all that the compensation you know, da it's here to stay there's probably going to be some regulation on it. There's that mean it's all wild speculation as it is but I mean, it's all trending towards legalization. I mean, it's it's it's it's people have been fine. The loopholes in these things for centuries. And then once you just find more and more again, how similar everything is and how it's like, where, what is the origin of all these things? Sheldon, like you said, it's the, the Do you? Do you have a seed that you patented? Then you got pure da? Or is this one that they produced in the lab? Which is identically chemically similar? Because our machines can't tell the difference? Right. So what do we have at that point? What where does? Where does that last stop? Where do you Where do we really because we can't see the molecule, we have machines that tell us where you know, what the molecule is looking like, or how much of the molecule there is, but as far as its origin? Right. It's It's It's It's It's what it's, it's it's completely it's a moot point at that point. So

Ronjini Joshua: 55:48

yeah, I mean, it just seems like there's just, there's this politics, and then there's, you know, various other politics involved in other aspects of the industry. It just seems like there's so many, just challenges and fights, fights going on right now.

Gregory Arias: 56:04

Fight. Yes, it's getting, it's getting brutal. It's getting getting mean out there. I can see.

Ronjini Joshua: 56:09

Yeah. Well, as far as what you guys do, can you tell us a little bit more about kind of like your full scope of how you pull ideas together? Obviously, you have the chemical engineering background, you have the scalability background, but like when when do people typically come to something like a chemical consultant,

Jason Showard: 56:33

I can use our project that we're talking about in Australia, right now, as an example, I just recently got contacted. And they said, Hey, we listen to your podcast, we like what you do. Let's, let's talk. And so I just started kind of chatting with this fella from Australia, who is putting together basically just bought a plot of land, they're going to be growing in a really advanced and interesting way. And then taking that to oil, and isolettes for pharma. And so, you know, he basically laid out what he wanted to do and said, What's the best way to do the lab side of things, I have the growth side of things locked down. But I would like someone to talk to me about that. So you know, Greg, and I, at that point, will jump in and say, Okay, this is what this is what, first off, what is the scale you're trying to do it at. And then once we get that information, kind of walk through what that looks like, what the best practices are, for design of a facility, whether it may be more financially viable for them to buy, you know, to build their own extraction room, or to buy a prefab extraction booth or what, what the route is there. And then as we move on past the design phase, then we can start talking about, Okay, now let's get serious about what you're trying to produce and how you want to produce it. Enter Greg, who will really do a lot more of the research side of things, if it's something new, or if it's something that's already existing, kind of fine tune what that is and how to do it. And then, and then we'll take that and scale it to whatever size they need. So I mean, anywhere from jump on in there, when all they have is a plot of land of they haven't even grown the flower yet. Or somebody that's a pre existing lab that says, hey, we think that we can tune in our slps. And do this better. Help us out here. Like maybe they replaced one piece of equipment, and that changes a lot.

Ronjini Joshua: 58:27

Yeah, no, that's really interesting. And like, so you guys go through from you can do it from conception to delivery, basically

Jason Showard: 58:36

100%, even down to formulation, after we've already isolated the various compounds, let's formulate what your final product wants to be if we want to be vertical.

Ronjini Joshua: 58:44

Right, right. I was well, I was gonna say Do people typically know? I imagine most people don't know the chemical part of it. So like, how do they know what they want? How do you guys know what to put together?

Gregory Arias: 58:57

I think it's it's again, just Jason put together because his podcast for a reason. He puts it because he was asking these questions, and nobody was out there with the answers. So he was the one who took the initiative to put it out there and be like, I I can't be the only 1am I still here. Sorry. I can't be the only one asking these questions. Yeah, right. I mean, there's there's got to be somebody else out there. So I'm gonna put it out there and maybe, maybe, maybe I am the only one but I doubt it now. If not, I'll find somebody else asking that question that may have an answer to another question. Right. That's when that's when that's where it is. That's where we are. We've we've we meet in the middle because I think we we have come very similar yet completely different set of skills. Yeah. allows us to attack things from different angles, and realize that like, Yeah, I don't know if people necessarily always know what we want. But if if We can come in with an idea and say, do you know Do you want to? What do you want to take? Like? Do you want to go? isolette? route? Do you want to go? You know, only vape cartridges you want to do edibles? Do you want to do you know, just full production and Li and then or do you want to total it? Do you want to what do you want to do with and and we've seen so many different permutations of this and so many different parts of the world that we, I think have a bit of a competitive edge to be able to bring all of again, this just collaborate all those things and bring them all together?

Jason Showard: 1:00:35

I would say, Well, first of all, thank you for the plug on the podcast, just in case anybody wants to know. Yeah, I was gonna ask extractor,

Ronjini Joshua: 1:00:42

modern extractor, it's actually really easy to find. So we'll have a link for it.

Jason Showard: 1:00:48

Alright, but just to add what what Greg was saying, you know, I find a lot of people know what they want. They they know what they want. From an end product perspective, I want to make the best shatter, or I want to make the best full spectrum vape cartridges or whatever, like, they usually have an idea of what they want. Okay, and then what they don't know is how to get. So tell it tell us what you wanna make. We'll work backwards. I think that's better. Yeah. But then also, some people don't know what they want. And they say, we just want to make the most money we can make? And if that's the answer, you know, we have enough experience and time put into the industry where I can say, Well, hey, these are the trends that are happening right? Now. If you want to make the most money, then then maybe you think about making these type of concentrates. So it's kind of, you know, it's not a one one size fits all, it's just kind of like, Hey, what are you trying to do? We'll help you out?

Ronjini Joshua: 1:01:41

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Did we? Do we not ask anything that we should have?

Sheldon: 1:01:47

I asked something and no one answer that.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:01:49

Oh, sorry. Sorry, Sheldon.

Sheldon: 1:01:53

How do you guys go about testing new chemical compounds and the effects on the human body?

Ronjini Joshua: 1:01:58

I really did not hear that question. It was

Gregory Arias: 1:02:03

never gonna get back to that. Are we gonna go back to that I want to dance steps up. As far as, as far as effects on the human body, that's, that's going to be a left left up to the, you know, medical medical scientist, and they would be able to, you know, test on, you know, the animal models first, obviously, because we're going to be, I mean, I doubt right now, if we just if we asked for it, we could have somebody test if we really want, we can have some person test, but is it a scientific tests? That No, it's a typical laboratory analysis equipment, GC, Ms. LC, yes. Geography,

Sheldon: 1:02:51

acronyms that the general public does, I'm sad

Gregory Arias: 1:02:53

to say, yeah, yeah, sorry. I was just about to lubeck, gas chromatography, liquid chromatography. nuclear magnetic resonance, is a novel, and it's nuclear magnetic resonance. So NMR, finding the shapes of the molecules and things like that mass spectroscopy, same sort of thing. It's all it's all analytical equipment. But again, the the pitfalls with those things is that you kind of have to have an idea of what you are putting in, you have to have an idea of of what you're looking for. And then the machine will be like, Oh, this is this is the signal that I'm giving you. It gives you peaks or a line or a chart. And it's like the people who don't know what, what that is. It's just lines. But if you know, okay, this is where the carbon usually comes out. This is where a ring usually comes out. This is where hydroxyl groups come out. And then you can kind of, you know, back piece it together. And it's it's, but as far as actual testing on on effects. Yeah, that's that would be more definitely left to to the medical professionals. Yeah, my biology and pharmacy. Cool. Thank you. Absolutely.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:04:11

Okay, any other questions?

Sheldon: 1:04:16

You guys have the floor right now? Yeah. Is there something that you wish the general public knew that you don't get a chance to speak on? Oh, man,

Jason Showard: 1:04:27

I wish the general public cared a little bit more about the origins of what they're putting in their bodies. Yeah, you know, there's, there are good actors and bad actors in the space, even if they all have licenses. I mean, we're talking within the licensed space. There's good actors and bad actors. You know, there's, there's people that are taking advantages of loopholes that are in the legislation because the legislators don't know how to how to plug those loopholes and says a scientific Cannabis community, see them clear as day. But they're not getting dealt with correctly. So, you know, I think, you know, a lot of this isn't going to get handled until there is a desire from the public that says, hey, I want these test results, or I want this information. I want

Ronjini Joshua: 1:05:19

more transparency or

Gregory Arias: 1:05:21

quality is a shirt. Yes, exactly. Right. And that'll

Sheldon: 1:05:25

happen after it becomes cancerous because we've played with the chemicals too much.

Gregory Arias: 1:05:29

Exactly. That's it. And going along with that I I wish the people cared, cared more. And I said it already was the politicians cared less, I wish we would just allow, allow us the ability to begin regulating it properly. Because Because the fact that it's been so demonized, and forced into the black market, we get those bad actors, we get people that are like, well, I'm still going just this like bootlegging, right? I want to have this, I want this, this drug, it makes you feel better cold calms me down, whatever it is, whatever your motive is, they're gonna get it, get it to them safely. Get it to them the right way. Allow us to figure it out, allow it because the market will figure it out? Well, we will figure it out. And the the research scientists are much much smarter than than all of us, maybe we'll figure it out, they will figure out exactly what we want to know. Like you're asking children like what will the these things do to our body? Really? What is this going to do to us? And if given the time, they will figure it out. But we need political backing for that we need people to change the line and allow us to do that,

Jason Showard: 1:06:39

more than anything. And to get the political backing, we need the consumer to be educated and demand it because it's not happen until it affects your bottom line, because you're not providing this information. That's that's that's the

Gregory Arias: 1:06:53

that's the right yep.

Sheldon: 1:06:54

Now, do you feel like federal legalization is going to actually enhance your ability to to create that research create those research programs get funding? Or?

Gregory Arias: 1:07:04

Absolutely be, because the demand will be there, and the people who are currently tenuous about it about getting in will will be like, no, it's, we can do this, now we can all actually do this. And we can actually put our entire, you know, quality and our entire being into making this as good and as safe. And as real as we put on the shelf of target. You know, get it out there to people on a massive scale where everybody can feel safe, everybody can walk in feel safe, and not just dislike going to the liquor store, you know, just the simple things. If they won't even be wanting to be talked about to speak, you know, pick up some smokes get out, right.

Sheldon: 1:07:51

This is such a huge topic. And thank you guys so much for, for really taking a deep dive and giving a lot of information, I know that we could go into the environmental effects of this, we could go even deeper into the business side of it. But for now, I think that's the that's the end of the road for today. But there's just so much we could talk about like this, this, this is a three to five month conversation.

Gregory Arias: 1:08:19

Right. Exactly. That's, that's the that's the end of the joint today. I'm gonna pass this along to

Sheldon: 1:08:30

thank you guys so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you so much. It

Jason Showard: 1:08:34

was a lot of fun. If I if I may say one thing here, we modern extractor just just decided to join up with mace media for the extraction Expo. that's taking place in Los Angeles, September 30 to October 1. I'll have a booth there while I'll be interviewing folks from from the industry. And it's a great, really educational conference where, you know, thought leaders in the industry are mixed up with scientists from the industry and extractors and we all get together. And there's a lot of work done in furthering the field there, and I'll be there covered it live. So come on by and check me out. Please

Ronjini Joshua: 1:09:18

be there. We'll be there. That's awesome.

Gregory Arias: 1:09:20

Definitely be your sound guy. Can we switch this up? I'll be the I'll be on the knobs in the back and you can

Ronjini Joshua: 1:09:27

turn turning you all the way down. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. Thanks for joining us. And we're gonna put all the links in the show notes so everybody can get to the modern extractor. If you can't find it, and of course go to the concentrated science website as well. Well,

Gregory Arias: 1:09:47

we'll have that ready. Yeah.

Jason Showard: 1:09:50

Thank you guys for having us. It's been a great experience. Thank you.

Gregory Arias: 1:09:54

Thank you. Thank you.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:09:56

The Green Room podcast is brought to life by green seed, PR Cannabis green tech focus PR agency and a dedicated production team of editors mixers and show Booker's. A huge thank you to the vessel team for providing their studio for our recordings. Don't forget to subscribe and share the green room podcast with friends, colleagues and family. That way you'll never miss an episode and we can keep the lights on. If you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast listening platform. You can also find us on Instagram at Green seed PR and to the live video versions of all of our podcasts on YouTube. Would you like to be on the guest on the show or do you have a great guest referral. Awesome. Submit your guests at Green Seed pr dot com slash the hyphen green hyphen group. Thanks for listening and be well