Ep. 40: Growing Better Buds - The Biology Of Cannabis. An Interview w/ Dr. Daniela Vergara, Co-founder of Cannabis Genomics Research Initiative

The biology of cannabis began in the mid-1960s with the identification of THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) as marijuana's main active ingredient.  But, what do we really know  more than 50 years later?  Listen to our interview with Dr. Daniela Vergara as she makes the biology of cannabis easy to understand and entertaining...

Connect W/ Dr Vergara:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/verdaniela/
https://vergarascience.com/
@CannaGenomics
https://www.facebook.com/cannagenome/


About Dr Vergara:
Evolutionary biologist, data analyst,  educator, scientific writer, and public speaker. In addition to her multiple publications, she founded and directs a non-profit organization, the Agricultural Genomics Foundation (AGF; AgriculturalGenomics.org). AGF aims to make hemp and cannabinoid science available to a broad public. Vergara has been part of e scientific teams at private companies including Steep Hill, Inc. who are a global leader in agricultural testing, and the biotech company Front Range Biosciences. 

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua: 0:11

Hello, and welcome to the green room podcast. In today's episode we are interviewing Daniela Vergara is a PhD and evolutionary biologist, we have a really great and candid conversation about the biology of cannabis research in cannabis and really kind of go through everything that she's learned about the industry and how research and educational and academic level has been affected by the criminalization of marijuana. She also talks about her journey and gives us insight into the dichotomy of, you know, hybrid strains and sativa and indica, and kind of the biology, biological descriptions of that. So hope you really enjoy this conversation. Do not forget to like us on Instagram and subscribe. Let's get into the green room. Hello, and thank you for joining us in the green room. today. We have Daniela Vergara. She's an evolutionary biologist and research associate at the University of Colorado Boulder. Also, she is the president and founder of the agricultural agricultural genomics foundation. Thank you for joining us today, Daniela,

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 1:32

thank you very much for having me.

Ronjini Joshua: 1:34

So we usually start each of the podcasts with a little bit of background on the person and how they kind of meandered into the world of cannabis. So can you give us a quick background on your I guess I'm guessing more. So your educational background and how you arrive to where you are today?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 1:52

Sure, yes. So I I have a PhD in evolutionary biology from Indiana University in Bloomington. I, my my PhD was mostly on post parasite coevolution. And I was in Indiana until 2013. And when I defended my thesis, my husband and I decided to move to Colorado. He found a job hearing in Colorado. So we moved and I started working with who's my mentor, uncle's collaborator Nolan Kane. I was his postdoc for some years. And then once I started doing consulting for the industry, I moved from being opposed to being a research associate, which is my current title. Um, and Nolan works with a lot of different plants, mainly some flowers and I was going to work with him in sunflowers. I want to he's I don't know missus, so he looks at the letters in the DNA. And that the Yeah, the letters of the entire letters from the whole genome. But at the time, Colorado was really utilizing and so we had some questions and some flowers about different species coming together and forming hybrids. which I thought were could also be appropriate to cannabis. So I started. This was my husband's idea, actually, like he cares about sunflower to seem like Why don't you work?

Ronjini Joshua: 3:41

And what can you just tell us? What year was that?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 3:45

That was late 2013. Okay. That was actually, I think, October 2013. When my husband was like, why don't you do using cannabis? You know, like, we're in Colorado is legal. And the recreational sales in Colorado started in January 1 2014.

Ronjini Joshua: 4:06

Okay, so you're right about to get into a more open market?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 4:10

Yes. Okay. Why start started I'm working on. So I went to Nolan. And I was like, Hey, why don't we do this and kind of this? And so he was like, Yeah, good idea. So I mean, at the time, we thought, like, yeah, this is awesome, this great idea. They didn't know that. The first year was going to be mainly meeting with lawyers and university, about what we could do and what we could not do about what we could say. And not say,

Ronjini Joshua: 4:44

all right, because you're conducting all this research through the university. Yes, got it. Yes.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 4:51

That's still the case. We are not allowed many, many, many things after all of these years, given that cannabis is still federally illegal and that universities, these big state universities have to abide to a lot of, of federal rules. One of them is federal funding. Right? Right. So we're still on the verge about what to do what not to do how to do things.

Ronjini Joshua: 5:22

Is it really more? Is it really more about the positioning of how you word it and say it what what you're doing

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 5:30

well, in a way, yes. Because we're allowed to work with him, right? And him. The legal definition of hemp is anything that has less than 0.3% THC, okay? Right. He is the psychoactive molecule the one that gets you high, right? So whatever has less than 0.3% THC, we can work with that. However, that legal definition of hemp, legally hemp is anything that has less than 0.3% THC, which is the psychoactive compound that gets you high. Um, however, biologically, the hemp grouping is what was traditionally used industrially for fiber or for oil. And that industrial grouping actually forms a biological cluster they share more of their genome they're more similar to each other in their genome and therefore they form a cluster but that cluster it may or may not be part of the legal cluster right i think that it's Yeah, I actually think that it's beneficial for us because then we can study marry one that has low THC

Ronjini Joshua: 6:51

to nothing

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 6:53

so it's actually beneficial for us that we can study anything that has low THC because usually the industrial hemp has low THC you know, it's been bred for fiber or for oil. So usually that one, it's fine it has low THC. And then we can also study what is sold a for for medical use for high CBD for example, which also has low THC, and therefore the legal definition kind of encompasses, like that umbrella encompasses more individuals than just the biological hemp definition.

Ronjini Joshua: 7:25

Right. So have you like, have you you mentioned in I think in your bio, I saw that you had been testifying against you know, or witnessed an expert witness and some legal cannabis testimony. So does that come up there? Like what what kind of what kind of testimony comes up when you're talking about the legalities and the quantities and things like that What do you usually talk about in those situations?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 7:54

Yeah, I've been involved with some legal witness cases. Um I one of them that was a year ago was related to the definitions between what is defined as HAMP and what is defined as marijuana right the French thing comparing it to the to the federal definition which I thought it was a super cool case because I had to read the definitions that someone you know wrote like okay, I'm going to define hampers blah, blah blah, right? And so I have to read them you know, and that's someone that decided to draw this line you know, like, I'm just gonna define this as so I had to read them and compare the definitions. So yeah, they do come up with Okay, is this hand for is this not an N at the end of the day, you know, that maybe that someone is going to go and you know, I don't know serve some sort of of purpose penalty or something like that. I mean, I don't know if going to prison but because I usually, you know, with those type of things, it's kind of like, okay, someone is going to pay some money grows. Right or and then what other I've been working in one recently about Yeah, about the lab results from these people that are saying like, yes, we got these individuals and these had really high THC, um, therefore, they cannot be hand and then these other guys saying like, no, they actually didn't, they have high CBD. And so I had to look at the test results and see, you know, what the test results were saying. And then, you know, we'll say Lud how many individuals were there? How much they have costs. They've they put this high CBD so that's the most recent one that I've been working off.

Ronjini Joshua: 9:55

Well, it sounds like you're getting a lot of these because the market is so unrig Related as far as like testing and certification, so where do you see that going? Like I think I mean, obviously, it's important to be able to decipher between the two. But when it becomes I mean, I guess what is the proper quality control process? What what should that be like for a company that's producing something and labeling it? And you know, giving you a numbers?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 10:23

That's a great question. I mean, I honestly don't see anything getting much better unless it's federally legal not have an entity or foreseeing entity that regulates all of these. All of these products right now, all of the states have different laws and different regulations. And and you cannot cross state line with with cannabis products, and particularly, there's some states where it's super ultra illegal, and then you're in trouble. Even if you're a marijuana patient here in Colorado, you may get in trouble in other states. Right, right. So so I don't see that there's going to be any sort of improvement unless we have a law that a federal regulation that that kind of puts everyone in the same boat, like, yeah, we have different regulations for tobacco state by state, but in general, right, you know, there are some things that you have to abide if you are producing tobacco, or in general, if you're producing alcohol. And I think that for example, for alcohol, I may be mistaken. But for alcohol, you cannot buy alcohol in certain places. laces, you know, like, you're not going to go to a pharmacy and buy 18 cents for certain in a pharmacy, which may happen with cannabis. Right, at some point may be able to buy it in the pharmacy. But also if you're under 21, you cannot buy alcohol. Right, right. I'm in Indiana, for example, I don't know if this law still I bet it is. But in Indiana, you cannot buy alcohol on Sundays.

Ronjini Joshua: 12:13

Right there. Yeah, there's other states like that, that are like regulated based on days or time, like past 10 o'clock, or whatever the the situation is. Yeah.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 12:22

Yeah, yeah. So but it's still you still have some consent, some regulations that you must abide in. federally. And for example, I think it's really important to, to have an entity that looks at the seeds, for example, that foresees all of these different testing labs. How are you testing it? When are you testing it? What equipment are you using to test it? How are you? How are you keeping your equipment? Who is testing it? What standards are you using? What methodologies I think that that's really important because we know that there's some testing labs some, right not all, I know that there's some that are very, very rigorous, and very accurate, but there's some that it's kind of like, well, if you give me some more money, I can just, you know, bite your teeth?

Ronjini Joshua: 13:18

Well, I guess I'm guessing it's gonna come under, like maybe the regulation of the FDA or would it be someone else? Or you know, I would imagine if that's kind of the case of what what you're talking about with these different you know, numbers and you're talking about how and how you're making it and you know, how, how they already deal with like organic versus, you know, produced in a nut factory or, you know, all these different labels that food already has, would this be under that marker?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 13:49

Yeah, maybe maybe would be under that marker. I mean, again, you know, the drugs are under. Yeah, I think that the FDA would be one. I don't know what's going to happen with a DEA.

Ronjini Joshua: 14:05

Yeah.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 14:07

But, uh, but yeah, I think that particularly if you're using it for patient, you really need to regulate. I mean, still, if you're using it as a consumer, right, if you're just using it for for recreation, you still want to know many many things. And, and you want to know that it's safe, right? You want to know that that beer that you're biting at the liquor store is safe? Yeah, yeah. Marijuana you don't want powdery mildew. You don't want to go?

Ronjini Joshua: 14:40

Does does hybrid have like you were talking about I mean, you guys started this by, you know, talking about the different strains and hybrid strains and creating new different plans like does do you think that kind of makes it more complicated? Like what what do you think, as far as like, all these new strands of different things, coming out, we're having Delta eight 910. You know, like, all that stuff like, how does it affect all of this? I feel like it's kind of you're like, you know, they're diversifying the market before it's even legal.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 15:14

Yeah. And I don't know who was I listening to the other day, saying that usually the push from people on the markets come before the laws. So I think that this is not this is common. Okay. Maybe, yeah. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, we've been trying to figure out how to classify cannabis. And we know that many of the names that the industry gives are not correct. For example, the IndyCar sativa? hybrid?

Ronjini Joshua: 15:52

Yeah, hearing a lot about that.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 15:55

That is kind of BS a little bit. And then, you know, they tell you like, Oh, this one is 100% indika. And this one is 100%. So tiva, which, what does the mean? 100%? Like, what does that like? How did you figure that out? How did you write like,

Ronjini Joshua: 16:15

what does it What does it mean from a biological perspective?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 16:18

Nothing. Okay. Nothing? I do we do see that there are groupings, right, we see that there's individuals are more closely related to each other than others. Right? I am more closely related to my son, then I'm to you.

Ronjini Joshua: 16:36

Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 16:39

Yeah, so we do see that there's individuals from a group for example, the industrial hemp, right? That hemp that is used for oil, or for fiber, those cluster together, though those do form a group. However, there's other trades when they tell you Oh, it has broadly, oh, it has broad leaves, therefore, it's gonna be couch locking, right? That is a huge, it's like saying, like, oh, that dog is white. Therefore, it is big. Yeah, you can also have a French poodle that is white, and it's very small, right? Like that has no correlation whatsoever, or, oh, you're tall, therefore, you're blue eyed. That has nothing to do with one another, right? Like, there's people that short on our blue eye like those, those traits are completely independent from each other. those traits can be shuffled around like a deck of cards, through recombination, recombination is when you know, you have mom and dad and some chunks of the genes of the genome comes from here and there and then you shuffle them around, all of those traits can be broken down so you can have a tall cannabis plant that has a lot of THC or a short cannabis plant have a lot of THC, those things are completely independent. And so when they tell you so I am not a medical doctor, I am a PhD I'm not I do not recommend that anything any use. But what I usually tell people is if you like whatever, stray that was either indico or sativa, or hybrid or whatever they call it, in that particular dispensary, go back to the dispensary and buy the same thing.

Ronjini Joshua: 18:16

Because it's not going to be the same somewhere else Probably.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 18:19

Probably and also because you know, any physical characteristic is a product of a non environmental nature or nurture. Right, right. It depends also on how you grow it. And all of those conditions, all of those environmental conditions.

Ronjini Joshua: 18:36

People basically what you're saying

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 18:39

anything, right and we call trade and a friend of tipic trade is a product of genes and environment some more gene some more environment, but it's an interaction between the two. So if you like that particular one because it helps you I don't know whether you're back pain, go back and buy the same thing at the same place.

Ronjini Joshua: 18:58

I tried to have a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago with someone because someone else is talking about this is totally Bs, you know, the the two strains are totally BS. And I was I was talking to them and this person was like, recreational user for a long time. And he was not having it. He did not believe me. I said, well look it up, look it up, see what you find. But I was like, This is what I learned because I talked to so many people, especially with all these interviews, and I've This is not the first time I've heard it but it's it's so funny because I was trying to convince somebody who has had it like really put into his mind that you know, it's like the indicus diva they do certain things and they're very specific and they're always the same and so he and I'm sure a lot of people have that in their mind locked in because they don't really understand how the different components of you know now what people are talking about all the you know, the different characteristics like you're saying and the terpenes and this and you know different elements of the plant. But he's he was very adamant that I was like, just blowing smoke.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 20:09

It's, it's hard. Yeah. I've had also that type of interactions with people. Yeah. And, you know, I'm I'm Latino, um, I'm short. And so I've had a lot of like, honey. I've been smoking weed since before you were born,

Ronjini Joshua: 20:35

or I know, I know what it what it is.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 20:38

Yeah, I bet and, I mean, we both have like names that are not the stereotypical white American name right? And so I bet that you've handled to those circumstances. I had ones this veteran from Vietnam, who told me like, I brought these seeds from Vietnam, you're not going to tell me like I brought these seeds. Before we were born? It's like, sure, you know, and then and then yeah, so I learned what to say when Yeah. And who to say it. Like that organic thing. I also think that it's kind of BS right? It doesn't mean that he doesn't have chemicals Yeah. That he has certain that some people have said okay, well this one

Ronjini Joshua: 21:29

these are acceptable. These are not acceptable.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 21:32

Yeah, right. Um, I I'm a big proponent for GMOs. But those things that come out just a conversation. I yeah, so so whenever you know, I tell people like Yeah, well, I'm gonna do a DNA extraction. Some people are like, Whoa, you're gonna Monsanto's eyes My weed. I'm not sure why that means. You're gonna GMO my weed. But, uh, but yeah, I had that I.

Ronjini Joshua: 22:08

Well, tell me a little bit about what you do at the agriculture, agricultural genomics foundation? What What do you guys do there? And, and how are you working with the industry to kind of, you know, I don't know, standardize or modernize it.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 22:22

So I do, mostly what we do is education. We do education and outreach, we try to bring all of these scientific fun findings to a broad public, you know, like, all of the papers that I've written, all of the scientific papers that I've written, are for a very small population. Not many people read scientific papers, basically, science for scientists. And I felt that there was a disconnect between there and the knowledge that people were getting so we're trying to do education, we actually have a podcast. Yeah. What

Ronjini Joshua: 23:05

is the podcast called? Give us today? Sorry, one more time.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 23:10

Gonna be science today.

Ronjini Joshua: 23:11

Okay, perfect. Well shout it out here.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 23:14

Perfect. Thank you. And we've found that a lot of the people that listen to our podcasts are mainly caregivers, medical users. So we're trying to get to these people and ask them, whether they what information do they want? And how do they want the information delivered? I think that the podcast has been very successful in trying to educate these medical consumers and these caregivers, which I feel that caregivers because I mean, one of the reasons why we started the agricultural genomics Foundation was because we needed a platform for many people that were looking for resources and didn't have. Yeah, many people that were looking like mothers, for example, like, Hey, I have a kid that has this condition, what do I do? Again, we're not we do not recommend products, we do not recommend like, okay, you should smoke this or you should be bad or you should eat these. We don't do that. However, we do try to bring the most accurate findings to these people on through AGF. I've also done a lot of outreach, public outreach in Spanish and in English and in in Latin American countries that have some sort of regulated market. Um, and we have courses. We are teaching right now a kind of discourse at CU Boulder that we developed through AGF and we are in the process of making a second one. So this biology courses a biology course, was kind of a science. And then we're doing a second one in biochemistry.

Ronjini Joshua: 25:09

So with the with that we more with like how, how cannabis interacts with the system, the biological systems? Is that? Um, or is it about the plant chemistry?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 25:22

The plant chemistry, but also how you test it right? Why do you need gas chromatography versus liquid chromatography? What information do they give you? Why do they give you different information? Why do you need to test it in one versus the other? What are cannabinoids? Yeah? Or can I be different particular and then looking at the actual molecule, right? The molecule, and I really wanted to do this course. And I'm working with three people on this. And one of them is a chemist, I really wanted to do this course because I myself wanted to understand the chemistry of the plant. I'm a biologist, I understand the genes I understand the genome, like that part I'm very comfortable with, but the chemistry it's like, okay, but what what is the difference between delta H and delta nine? Writing the molecule? Or why what is alpha pinene? versus beta? pinene? Right? That part of it or says vs trans? Is that the same thing? Right. So we are going to have this, this course is in the making, we hope to have it ready, at some point other in the fall. But, uh, but yeah, we we want to address all of those biochemical questions. And we want this course to be a very, like a one on one type, of course. So that it's a, it's available for biologists, and for, you know, introductory chemists from, you know, beginning semesters or, or psychologists, we want big, and also for policymakers. Because at the end of the day, if you makers are making all of these laws and regulations without really understanding the chemistry and the biology of the plant.

Ronjini Joshua: 27:14

So I was gonna actually use mentioned policymakers. But earlier, you mentioned that, you know, you've been talking to a lot of medical consumers and patients. What about the medical community? And you know, how would they be able to incorporate a course like this with medicine? Because that's been, you know, not a lot of people are precise, you can't prescribe, you know, you're not necessarily prescribing it. So like, how would they incorporate that? And would this be something that they could incorporate into like a medical horse?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 27:45

I think so. Yes. I think that, however, medical personnel, I don't know, they're kind of like, their own type of world. Yeah. I follow on Twitter, those many people that that are open to prescribing cannabis, and that, but I know, especially from one person in Twitter, that's very vocal, and he's a very renowned medical doctor, who I actually admire a lot. And he says things about the other medical doctors like, Hey, guys, I read about it, like, how can you say that it's bad, but I know, people that are medical doctors that are kind of like, No, you should not use that. Like, no, that is a drug. But it's like, well, yeah, that is a drug. But so is aspirin. Right? So right. And so yeah, so so I, how you don't I have not been in? I mean, I have in Mexico, actually. And in Colombia? Actually. I have had conversations with medical doctors. I think that they have been very, some of them, the ones that go to this symposium to these conferences are open to it and are open to it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that it's been a biased population now by a sample size of the medical doctors out there.

Ronjini Joshua: 29:10

Yeah, I mean, I'm wondering if once they embrace it, it would seem a little bit more, you know, everyone's having this stigma issue. So like, if the stigma was less if a medical doctor would actually openly say, Hey, you know, maybe this is an option for you, you know, versus it being kind of quietly, quietly fed to them, you know, in the background.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 29:34

I agree. I agree. I i think that that is true. I think that medical doctors in general, and again, I'm just generalizing, and probably all of them are like this, but generally it's kind of like well, it has 10 milligrams, therefore you need to have three pills every eight hours for right right and with with kind of business is not that way. Unless you Extract the compounds and then you have something like Marinol right? Which is pure THC, which people actually do not like. And then it shows that maybe that entourage effect that people are taught, I got all of the interaction between all of these multiple compounds. Perhaps that is real, right? And perhaps because if you isolate one, and you take that one, you don't like it, and the effects are not the same, but when you there's

Ronjini Joshua: 30:28

no balance. Yes, yeah. So we

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 30:31

know that THC and CBD act in different ways. And that CBD counteracts the effects of THC, right? And so you're just taking THC, you're not going to like it. But if you take this whole, you know, the, all these other compounds, all of these other compounds together, that may be better. But that doesn't come with like this, you know, yeah, you can test it. And it comes like with this amount of THC, but it doesn't tell you about all of the different compounds, like we're covering a bunch of different compounds. And so I think it's in that way, it's going to be really hard to tell someone like, okay, you need to take this every six hours. Plus, it's not recommended to smoke. Right? Right. It's the best way of confirm So, so maybe I don't know, if this cookie or, or vape the flour, not those vapors, not though vape pens? No, but vaping the actual flour, right? So, yeah, but I do think that the stigma, I mean, I think that the stigma is still gonna continue a little bit I might I follow on Twitter, a bunch of renowned academics that show their drinks on a Friday night, and this is my mohito or this is, you know, whatever I'm, I don't drink. So I don't know, you know, like, whatever people used to drink on the BI is and then I put a little whatever leave, you know, right. And that is okay. And we're still trying to make cannabis. Okay, as well?

Ronjini Joshua: 32:19

Well, one thing I've heard from previous researchers that we've talked to is just about the like you were mentioning federal funding and the lack of funding. And obviously, you've been able to do a little bit of research in Colorado. Are there any other universities or any other places that are doing research that are that is going to impact the industry in a way where like, it could be widely spread out? Because if the I feel like if the research is limited, it's going to be hard to just do anything else?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 32:51

Yeah, I agree. I mean, most of the research that has been done at academic institutions, you have to not touch the plant. Okay. For example,

Ronjini Joshua: 33:10

you have to extract is what you're saying?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 33:12

Yeah, yeah. So for me, it's been easy because I do genomics. So I look at you know, like, once you sequence a DNA, you have a bunch of bioinformatics data, right? And, and I just go into a server and I look at letters, and then I'll do statistical stuff and right, but if you want to actually do experiments from parents to offspring, or at different locations, that is hard. I think Canada is doing a bunch of stuff. They're definitely in the forefront. Yeah. Um, but I think that there's as academic institutions, more private institutions, and some private institutions like private companies, there's well not out in Oregon that had a good paper that was published, I think, at the beginning of this year, I'm Front Range, and I used to work up steep hill, which was a testing, which is a testing facility and then Up Front Range. There's research being done. But yeah, but it's private. And I mean, there's some universities I have my friend on ash Robbie, who did conduct research touching the plant at the University of Northern Colorado, which is a small university in Colorado, but the big universities in Colorado, at least are the big universities across the US, I think that some of them are opening hemp programs. But nothing with THC.

Ronjini Joshua: 34:44

Yeah, just as a door like a little door to get in. Yeah, yeah. Well, what are you working on, you know, outside of the stuff that you mentioned with a gf? You know, what else are you working on right now as far as research and what do you see coming up in the In the next few, you know, I guess next year is really what we're looking at.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 35:05

What am I working in terms of research? I mean, I'm finalizing projects. I had a paper that I recently submitted, which was looking at the genome of the night strains, the National Institute for drug abuse. So we got a hold of some DNA from them. And we sequencer and we compared this to strains from the other strains that are available in dispensary's the genome right does the genome and we looked at different parts of the genome and compared neider to the other strains on and hemp so we have hemp and and marijuana. So that was recently published. I I have been working a lot on grants, actually a day writing grants, because my fund my funding is scars right now. So I'm looking for ways to funding my research and and so I've been working on a lot of in grants, many of them related actually to the to the effects chromosomes. So in cannabis, you have militias, so that are hermaphrodites. So and then you have males, and you have females, but they can interbreed. And the males have an X Y chromosome system kind of like us, like humans. And then the females have an x x. The militias. We don't really know apparently they're undifferentiated, but we don't exactly know, it seems that there was a recent paper that showed the there was some similarity to the X chromosomes in the females. So the money issues on the X were similar, but we don't entirely know so I've been writing grants on that and thinking about that, that is that really interests me. Um, but, but I want to start writing a grant on cannabinoids. And on the cannabinoid genes which I have actually been working on for, for some time, the genes related to cannabis production, which are super interesting and different from individual to individual righties, they not only differ in which genes they have, but on the number of genes that they have. Um, and these genes seem very specific to cannabis there was this paper that was published last year from this people in in the Netherlands and they show that his genes are specific to cannabis and it seems that he was kind of like an explosion that after you know cannabis on hops are the closest related expense This is so existing species okay. Yeah, beer on weed. So once they speciate to once they diverged after that divergence in cannabis, this gene seem to have been like an explosion. Uh huh. And and so I am interested in looking at that as well. After I figure out some more secure funding i think that that could be a possibility.

Ronjini Joshua: 38:41

Okay, that's funny I like that. So if someone wanted to find you, or I think you're consulting as well right? Yes, doing some Yeah. So can you tell us about what was a little bit about your consulting who you consult with? Are you can consulting for cannabis companies specifically or people who are doing policy change? How are you doing that?

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 39:04

I've done consulting in policy change in South America actually. Okay. In policies. So I've done that a little bit. I mean, I do expert witness stuff as well. But um, but yeah, I do a consulting for the hemp and cannabis industry about you know, what to plant on genetics and, and recommendations on on breeding. I do that for both hemp and marijuana like and then you know, if they want some education like we could do with 3g or 4g, if they want some data analysis, I've also done a little bit of that as well like it do. statistics and data analysis is still like It goes,

Ronjini Joshua: 40:01

Okay, perfect. And where can people find you? I have at Cana genomics for for the foundation. Is that correct? No, that's my Twitter handle. Oh, that's your Twitter handle Okay, at kind of genomics at Twitter, I'll list all everything in the show notes as well. But is there a website where people can find you or any other places, Instagram, that's going to stuff.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 40:22

Um, I have a website. And it's my last name better gotta go better goddess science calm. And my last name is VER ji AE Ra. So better data science.com.

Ronjini Joshua: 40:40

Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I think it's interesting, we're getting so many different sides of the story. So we're getting everything from the root to the like, you know, sales end of it. So it's nice to hear all the different processes and things that go in place when just dealing with the industry and how it's affecting, you know, different types of people. And I think that's one of the cool things about this podcast is we're able to get all kinds of people on here so I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Dr. Daniela Vergara: 41:11

Well, thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Ronjini Joshua: 41:15

The Green Room podcast is brought to life by green seed PR, a cannabis green tech focused PR agency and a dedicated production team of editors mixers and show Booker's. A huge thank you to the vessel team for providing their studio for our reporting. Don't forget to subscribe and share the greenroom podcast with friends, colleagues and families. That way you'll never miss an episode and we can keep the lights on. If you're feeling extra generous, please leave us review on your favorite podcast listening platform. You can also find us on Instagram at Green seed PR and to the live video versions of all of our podcasts on YouTube. Would you like to be on the guests on the show? Or do you have a great guest referral. Awesome. Submit your guests at Green CPR comm slash the hyphen green hyphen room. Thanks for listening and be well