Ep 44 - Changing The Way We Look At The CBD Industry. An interview w/ Tahira Rehmatullah, Co-Founder, Commons

Starting her career in the financial industry,  Tahira Rehmatullah, ended up on a mission to change the way we look at the CBD industry.   We got a chance to interview her during MJbizcon 2021 in Las Vegas. 

Tahira earned her MBA from the Yale School of Management and B.S. in Finance from The Ohio State University.  Since entering cannabis in 2014, Tahira has held positions at MTech Acquisition Corp., Hypur Ventures, Marley Natural, and Privateer Holdings, and prior to that, at City First Enterprises, Perry Capital, and Ernst & Young. 

Fortune Magazine has called Tahira one of the top 5 most powerful women in pot and Business Insider has deemed her one of the rising stars of the marijuana investment scene.

Tahira wanted to find a way to use her expertise in finance to support a mission-oriented, social goal.  Fast forward to today and she is the Co-Founder at Commons.  Which offers a variety of CBD-based products through a network of trained coaches.   

Commons is working to bring the benefits of CBD to middle America, minority groups, and people the cannabis industry has often overlooked.   

Visit Commons website to learn about their CBD products and how they can help you.

Connect w/ Tahira:
Tahira Rehmatullah | LinkedIn
https://www.instagram.com/commons_co/
Tahira (@TahiraRehm) / Twitter

Remember to like, subscribe and share

Transcript

Ronjini Joshua: 0:11

In this interview, I talked to Tahira co founder and CEO of comment and partner at Highland venture partner. She talks about her journey to the cannabis industry and how as a brown woman and child of Pakistani immigrants, she kind of came upon getting into the cannabis industry, as well as investing in how important it is to have social equity as as well as giving opportunities to people to become entrepreneurs in the industry. So this is an awesome interview about how strong women can come up and create new opportunities in cannabis. Joining us for this conversation in the green room now. Hi, we are here in the green room with Tahira Rehmatullah. She's the co founder and CEO of Commons, and partner and Highlands Venture Partners. So thank you for joining me here.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 1:06

Thanks for having me

Ronjini Joshua: 1:06

know, I'm excited to hear a little bit about your panel that you talked on Tuesday, and the finance forum and and a little bit more about what you guys are doing in the cannabis space. But first, I like kind of trying to gauge everyone's thoughts on mjbizcon this year and what they expected and what they saw.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 1:26

Sure. So I've been coming on GPS comm for quite some time. And it's always interesting to see the evolution compared to early days when they were like, you know, a couple 100 of us at the Rio. Right. Yeah, which feels like ages ago, and just like very different experience. You know, and now to see the scale of it, I think 2019 was massive, it feels about the same as that I think, you know, really, for me, it was an opportunity to just see people that I haven't seen in a very long time. So there's an opportunity for reconnection. And I think also just seeing some of the new businesses and areas of like depth that are emerging. As an investor, you look across the entire space. Yeah, as somebody with a brand. I'm always looking for new ingredients, manufacturing partners, collaborations. And so really, it's like, it's a great place to be able to see all of that It's like, you just have to not look at the numbers. Just write it out, write it out, like, buy more don't sell, you know, pick the names or the ETFs that you like and just keep going. But you can't worry about it day to day. And then you're seeing, but on the other side of it, you're seeing m&a skyrocketing. And it's because, you know, it's all about sentiment as well, and what's going to happen with federal legalization. Like, there are some people who are very bullish and think that it will be one to two years, I'm probably in the more cautious camp that three to five, three to five, but starting with capital markets, you know, we'll have some kind of a SAFE Act, some kind of a more act, just combination of those, yeah, do allow for banking, to do a lot allow for like some degree of cross state transaction that really around safety and thinking also about social equity. And what are we doing about expungement, and allowing for more resources for black and brown people to participate in the space? And that's really happening at a state level, they might just leave it there. You know, it's hard to say right now, I think that there are just shifting priorities when you look at what's happening in the administration. And so I tend to think it's a bit longer. I have been proven wrong once or twice before. But I think that this one, you know what, I'm probably right, I'm probably right. And I think that is just in preparation for that. Because once that happens, once there is a clear line of sight for federal legalization, then all of the current big cannabis operators, which are multi billion dollar companies, but they're trading a lower, you know, they're mostly trading on the CSC. But then you're competing with major CPG, big alcohol, big tobacco, like groups that have massive yes, that can do transactions that are not within the realm of capability today. And we've seen a couple of those, you know, constellation invested like $4 billion in canopy, you're seeing some of those businesses start to take their toehold in these other operators. And then in turn, those operators which are predominantly Canadian, yeah, are then coming to the US. Also looking at global footprint, but us is really what every operator is thinking about this is probably going to be that already is the biggest market, it's probably the most interesting, and Canada is going to losing steam, and they have all these all this money. And they can't really deploy it within their own country because that market isn't going to grow the scale that it will in the US. So, you know, lots of discussion around those like, you know, what's the right vertical? I don't think there is a right one, I do think I'll always have been a big believer in the power of the brand. And brands are hard. They take a very long time to cultivate. Yeah, I am one of those people that other people probably get angry because I don't believe that like the best brands like the top 10 brands, 10 years from now exists today. Some of them do some form. But I think that brand loyalty is really hard in such a fragmented market. And now there's a New Yorker and the East Coast coming online. I'm like, you know what's relevant on the West Coast may not be sure there will be some Oh, that East Coast West Coast rival. I had a moderate a panel last week at Trailblazers that was all about West Coast for West Coast operated California. All California actually. Yeah. Like it's funny that they put a New Yorker sitting here, this coaster who was like, Alright guys, do you really think that you're that special? Yeah. They're like, yes, we do. Yes. No, but I will say like, California has an incredible market. There's so much to learn from that. Good and bad. Yeah. And thinking about how has the market evolved. I mean, the the illegal market in California is booming. It even even maybe more so than before legalization, because of the way that regulation has been structured and taxes. It's kind of pushing people back into that. Right. So there are lessons to be learned on like, how do we do this? With like, with also a sense of false confidence at the same time? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that there, there were a lot of things in California was early when you think of their social equity program, legal adult use legalization. And it's hard being early, you know, and so you hope that the east coast will learn from that. We've already seen flaws happening in different markets, there was great hope for Illinois, various social equity programs, and we're seeing a lot of challenges there. You know, nothing has really come to fruition. New York has stalled and stalled largely because of the desire for social equity. And then obviously, we Cuomo was pushed out people came in, she moved everything very quickly. But what we're seeing are some of the flaws that maybe came from other markets and that there aren't any cannabis operators who are sitting on those committees and on those teams. Sure. And that's challenging because now we actually do have the benefit of people who have operated in space, who might have a very important perspective to bring and how does the rollout happen? What if you do this regulation what actually happens playing out like intentions are always good, right? But things go sideways as we all know, right? And I think that that, so we're all we're keeping a very close eye on that and wondering what's going to happen. But I think that, you know, at the end of the day, California is the biggest and very important market. But I'm excited for you.

Ronjini Joshua: 10:17

I saw like, best on her lips a little bit biggest. And that's what she was going to say, I

Tahira Rehmatulla: 10:22

guess. Yeah, dare I say, I got kicked out of New York. Yeah.

Ben Michaels: 10:27

Would you have an opinion, like coming from New York like seeing like how, like Colorado, and how they did their medical and recreational side and how they split the two of those, as opposed to California where all being medical is anymore? It's just getting an extra 5% of your bill? You know, I wonder if you have an opinion on that, as it rolls out?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 10:49

Well, I think markets that have more of a true medical, where they're substantially, the dosing is very different. What is available is also different, the pricing is quite different, because we're not going to be an insurance covered structure for a very long time. And for a lot of people, cannabis is medicine. And so when you go into these heavily taxed adult use markets, it's just not feasible for people to be able to use it on a daily basis, you know, multiple times a day. Yeah. And so I think the markets that have been able to really strike that balance are very impactful in Colorado has gone through multiple iterations. They were early. But there is that that value in that structure there? And I think, yeah, to your point about California, there isn't that big of a difference anymore. I mean, the medical market was essentially adult use. Yeah, I had my California medical, California. And I was like, oh, and actually, when I got my medical card, it was quite some time ago, I was actually sitting in Canada to do my Zoom interview, or whatever it was, yeah, maybe it was zoom. It was an early adopter, but to do that virtual interview with a physician sitting in California, and I guess this was 2015. Yeah. And I was like, I don't even have to be in the state. And then, you know, sent my medical card to a friend in California. I'm like, hey, when this comes in, send it to me. Yeah. And then that's what I use every time I was there. But I still don't have a New York medical card there for ages. But that's also it's a very different medical market. Yes, it was highly restrictive, you really had to have specific ailments. And those have loosened more where it allows for, like, chronic pain, which is, I think, very important. And as someone is I suffer from chronic pain, and so to not have that on a on a list. You know, New York really went pretty extreme, and now has started to become a little bit more friendly and for the medical, but we'll see what happens, you know, with with adult use, and will there be more of a separation? Do they kind of come close together? I think states have had a little bit of a challenge balancing what does that look like and taxes speak for themselves? States want and so for for Summit? I think they go through the assessment of doesn't matter if we, if we're going to do adult use, do we just have it all? Not everyone gets to use? Yeah, but then that it's good revenue for the state, but then again, goes back into what people who are really using this for medical and not for recreational use? Yeah, then it's just inaccessible. Yeah, you have to be pretty wealthy to be able to, it's pretty expensive. The targets. Yeah, and that's why then the illegal market thrives because that's how you're able to compete or be able to have more access on a regular basis, because they'll, they can move their prices around all they want. Yeah, yeah. Who's

Ronjini Joshua: 13:49

wherever they feel? Yeah. Um, that actually brings me to kind of my intro question usually, is the journey like how did you get into the cannabis industry and you mentioned chronic pain. So you know what, what got you into cannabis and then what what made you want to work in?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 14:06

Yeah, so actually, my my, my chronic pain oddly developed once I was in the industry. But yeah, I so my background pre cannabis is more traditional finance workers and young and I was at a hedge fund and did a one year fellowship at a nonprofit was really trying to find how do I bring more mission oriented work with private sector and this is a little bit before impact investing funds and ESG were really a focus on the investment side. So I went to business school and while I was in business school in my second year, my grandfather was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer and so it was my mother's father. My family is from Pakistan. I grew up in small town, Ohio, and my grandfather was with my parents at the time of his diagnosis. And so my mother became his caretaker and as happens with so many people when you're going through those that you're you're really Looking for every alternative that is out there. And she kept coming across cannabis in her late night Google searches. And one day, she texted me and my younger sister. And all she said was, Do you know where to get marijuana? To watch? My little sister immediately called me? And she was like, Do you think this is a test? Yeah. Maybe let's find out what's going on. So

Ronjini Joshua: 15:22

the like, don't answer Yeah.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 15:27

And it just struck me at that time that my mother and my parents are devout Muslims. I've never looked at any of this. Any of these types of products, even though Pakistan is a country that cannabis grows freely, but it's just not utilized that way. But my parents are very big believers in my family in general and homeopathic medicines. Exactly. My father is a physician. So there's also a belief that Western medicine but we've always had, you know, before any over the counter, something was given, it was always some kind of homeopathic auction, you know, so that that was very much a part of our lives, but certainly not cannabis. It was a part of my life and that I was, you know, a high schooler growing up in small town, Ohio, and nobody had anything to do. Yeah, you would consume cannabis, you know, or everybody you knew was growing it in their basement. Yeah. And so it really hadn't been I hadn't consumed cannabis in a long time at that point. But I knew where to get it in my hometown. And, you know, I told my mom, I said, Look, I know where to get it. You're not going there. They're not coming to you. And all I knew how to get was flour, and my grandmother had lung cancer. And so even if that was an option for somebody who's going through chemotherapy has a compromised immune system. I was I said, you know, I don't know what's on it. I don't know what's in it. Yeah, I certainly can't give it to him. And she just she was desperate to find something that wood finds provide some relief, and we weren't able to get him anything. Before he passed away, that would be helpful. But it just really started this conversation, this conversation for all of us. And I think for me just research mode and want to start learning a lot more about what was happening in California and Canada and Israel around research and how it was truly used as medicine, you know, when you think of the AIDS epidemic, and how heavily cannabis was utilized during that period. And then also the other side of it, on the social justice side, really understanding the war on drugs, and how did that come to be? What did it actually mean? And I'm a child of the 80s. And I was like, did Nancy Reagan lie to me? Like I was adjusting? Okay, yeah. And then I was like, but this was all made up. This was made up to target certain communities. And so I was fired up didn't really know what to do about it. I didn't know that they're

Ronjini Joshua: 17:42

actually getting hot. Yeah.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 17:45

Yeah, I do. But I didn't know that there were legal jobs. I didn't really understand this is late 2013 Going into 2014. And so there wasn't that much discussion, even around what was happening in Colorado and Washington, right. And then, the day after my grandfather passed away, I was sitting at my parents house in Ohio, and I got a random text message from a former classmate of mine who was a year ahead of me, at Yale, and he had graduated without a job and joined a startup that was started by alumni of a program. That was the the first cannabis firm focused on our investment firm focus on cannabis and randomly random, and so he just randomly texted me he didn't we hadn't talked in months. So he didn't know that I had been looking at it. I'd forgotten what he was doing, because it's a small niche. And I was like, that's funny and weird. And all he said, the first text was, hey, do you have a job? And when you're sitting in February, or second year business school, you're generally in freakout mode, because you're graduating, you need to have a job, you need to have a job. And I was like, Ooh, a sore subject. And he said, All he said was, how do you feel about Seattle and marijuana? And I'd forgotten what he was doing. And I was like, Whoa, that's right. That's, that's what Sam is doing. And it was kind of like the perfect storm. And I turned to my parents, and I said, What do you guys think about Seattle marijuana fully thinking that they would be like, Absolutely not, are you right? But we just gone through this experience. And they were very open minded about it, and did view it as medicine. So I was like, this could be the shortest job I ever have. Let's see. Yeah, I can always get out of it. Yeah, hopefully I'm like, or am I just taking this fancy business degree that I've just gotten it and immediately lighting it on fire? Oh, yeah. No. And so I moved to Seattle, join this company. And seven years later here we are

Ronjini Joshua: 19:43

venture ventures. So no,

Tahira Rehmatulla: 19:45

actually the first company I worked for, I worked in a lot of places. Okay, so it was Privateer Holdings, which was also the company that started Tilray Okay. accom and then within that, so I had the opportunity to work on the investment side and then also was I was put in a position to be an operator. So I started a brand called Marley Natural, which was a partnership with Bob Marley's family estate holdings. So I had the opportunity to work on that for a couple of years. Take that to mark in that was at a time when brands were new. Yeah, cannabis. I mean, I remember having debates with bud tenders in California, because that was a market we launched in that prepackaged cannabis was the future of cannabis. And they were like, No way. No way. Nobody's gonna buy cannabis like this. And I'm like, no, no, they they will. Marley's name is on Yes. It should come sealed. And yeah, just like safe packaging. And they're like, No, there's because at that time, it was still jars of bud. There was yeah, there wasn't that much on the edible side. And what was available really was made in someone's kitchen. So just seeing that evolution has been really fascinating. And then, since then, I've done a combination of consulting helping other brands get to market and moved into more of the investment side and venture. I did a spec, actually, the the first US listed spec very close in 2018. At a time when it's crazy. Nobody knew what the hell a spec.

Ronjini Joshua: 21:09

Yeah, I mean, I barely I know. I know a little bit about us back. But I don't know, even when you've seen it. I've seen it. headlines everywhere.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 21:17

I mean, this was a time we appeared at the end of January 2018. And our road shows, you know, we're talking to very sophisticated investors. And there is there's a distinct group that is called the spec mafia, who they trade specs, they really understand them. But broader investment community didn't really participate in specs didn't really understand them. And so we got smart on it. And even I had the debate internally. I'm like, is this a Ponzi scheme? I don't. I just like the structure was new to me.

Ronjini Joshua: 21:47

It's weird. It's like strange, if you hear about it the first time exactly the Moore's that when they explained it to me, I'm like, okay,

Tahira Rehmatulla: 21:52

yeah, it makes sense. And it makes sense. It made a lot of sense for the cannabis market. So we did announce that lesson one, we took a business called MJ Freeway public in 2019. It's now called a Corona. So tech play in the cannabis space. They're also a big believer in what are called ancillary businesses that are powering and supporting the industry, because the larger businesses that are outside of the industry don't support it yet, and they're starting to but there's still that barrier, because of the lack of legality. Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua: 22:24

until they can make money from it. Why?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 22:25

Yeah, why do it? Yeah, yeah. And then in to comments and highlands are actually, within the last few years are wanting to wanting to focus on investing in more venture opportunities, but also allowing for my partner, Jacqueline Bennett at Highlands. And I, we really wanted to bring more women and minorities on cap tables. And, you know, we had been in the space for a while we were finally at a point where we're able to get allocations into investments, even if they weren't massive dollars. But to be able to get, even if you can get, you know, a couple 100,000 and then be able to give that access to people who maybe wouldn't have generally want to have access to themselves, but also maybe their check size is 5000 10,000 15,000. I mean, it's a lot to manage for an investor group. But at the end of the day, if you can allow that person to participate in the industry and generate opportunity for themselves, like that's what we want to be able to do, and the stock market isn't for everybody, yes, you can participate in that. But it's a very different type of value proposition than when you're able to invest in private companies. So that's where we have focused there, we've done seven investments, you know, ranging from 125,000 to a million. And then on the common side, that really is something that I've been thinking about for a while, you know, I'd done brands in the space had known that maybe someday I would start a brand but as the brand started flooding the market, it really like they all kind of looked and felt the same to me. And there are really great ones out there. Don't get me wrong, but I think the trend has been much more similar populations coastal, have a certain value point or you luxury, luxury price point. And what started to really come to mind for me was well, who's talking to the rest of the country? Yeah, he's talking to even people like my mom, right? Or more diverse communities that maybe aren't just following the trends that are happening on the coasts and with that, even thinking about something like CBD so Commons right now as CBD only will continue into other cannabinoids and eventually THC. But even with CBD, it's flooded the market. It is everywhere. Everywhere.

Ronjini Joshua: 24:44

My I went home one day, we were recording. And that day I had like, on the way home I was like, stopped at my parents house. I just like went in there and I was like, I looked at my dad's desk and my dad's 81 to do

Tahira Rehmatulla: 24:59

somebody that somewhere in Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: 25:00

And at plus, I looked at his desk and he has the CBD, like vitamins or something. And I'm like, what is happening? Right? Like, I didn't actually didn't say anything. So I was like, I didn't say anything. But I was like thinking like, I wonder if they know what I'm doing. And I mean, not that they would say anything. They don't really care. No, but like, I wonder if they know what I'm doing. And then where do they get that CBD and what is he using it for? All the questions, all the questions came up. And I was like, so judgy about my dad have a gay, you know, like all the things that you might think that your parents have about you asking those questions to them. I was like, I was like, I was turning the parent. I was like, what's going on? But did you just so I was so curious about how they became so trendy. He led with the CBD.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 25:51

Yeah. And it is everywhere. Funny story about my mom. So obviously been in cannabis since 2014.

Ronjini Joshua: 25:57

Yeah. 28 Your Mom's an OG now?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 25:59

Well, I thought yes. And no, I got this call from her and 2018. I like remember very distinctly, she called and she said, Hey, have you heard of CBD? And I was like, Excuse me, mother? Yes.

Ronjini Joshua: 26:12

How dare you? How

Tahira Rehmatulla: 26:13

dare you? Excuse you? And she said, and I said, why? And she goes, Well, I've been taking the CBD. And, and this kind of leads into why Commons just kind of felt like the right position. Yeah, so she calls me tells me this and I'm like asking all these questions like, Where'd you get it from all and why he you know, came from one of her best friends who? Indian woman around you know, same age and it's dealing with the same pain points. And our family friend, Auntie Gogi. She has a chain. She has convenience stores. Okay, so she dealing with a lot of people are coming in daily for different items. And people start asking about CBD. So she just did her own research, she found a wholesaler and started stocking it. Hey, couldn't keep it on the shelves. So she tried it herself. She found relief for her back pain. And instead of taking multiple Advil a day, and she recommended it to my mom for her backpack. It's amazing. And, you know, my mom was like, Yeah, this is this is actually helpful. She's like, why haven't you ever brought this to me? And I was like, Well, I did not know that that was on the table. Yeah. Because even though my parents were supportive of me being in the space, they they were like, oh, we'll try all the Yeah. Yeah. And so fast forward to thinking about different opportunities in way to provide more access in the market. Realize more than it wasn't as much about the products themselves. I think we've come very far. Yeah, testing is better. extraction methods are better, like the products out there are good, there are still still a very wide range of usually test products. And you see, they say it's X amount of CBD, how much is actually in there? Sure. It's still a question or like, what other things are they testing for? Or that have been discovered? But it was a little bit less? To me. That's like, that's not the issue. What is the issue is distribution and how that is happening? Because now you're finding it in every bodega.

Ronjini Joshua: 28:14

Yes, yeah. Omar, everything.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 28:17

Nordstrom can get it on Amazon. But you know, there's a difference between CBD and hemp seed oil. And people don't understand that either. And so it's everywhere, kind of flashing in your face. But people still don't really understand it. They don't know what very confusing, and it is trial and error, because we don't have all the clinical trials, the trials and the history that we have when it comes to over the counter pharmaceutical products. And so it is trial and error. And like, I've been in space long enough that I've had enough trial and error, I've tried it. And I've aired multiple times, I can tell you what not to do. But for the average person, I think it's it's more challenging, right? You don't get Advil, it says take to not within this time frame all of that. We don't have that. And so what I realized in conjunction with somebody that I had been brainstorming ideas with with a while for a while at Thrive capital. This direct sales model was very impactful. And you know, I was someone I didn't have a lot of exposure to direct sales by. My sister had previously been involved with Beautycounter and Stellan dot. Okay, but in my mind, what came from a lot of those was what comes to a lot of people and that's pyramid scheme. Yeah. Knowing exactly like you're all of your old high school,

Ronjini Joshua: 29:34

hitting you up on Facebook, inviting inviting them over to your house for a party.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 29:38

Exactly. And they're like, you have to buy all of this. Yeah, right. Like before you leave, you must buy. Here's the sand so well, you know, that was my impression too. And as we did more and more work on just understanding the value and there's a reason why it has been successful in a lot of areas. Yeah, there has been there. There have been a lot of things that have been done wrong, there are predatory elements that were introduced into a lot of different structures. And so as the idea started to come together more and more, it's like it felt like the right channel for not just CBD, but cannabinoids more broadly and right

Ronjini Joshua: 30:14

after that is like it's a conversation, right? You have to actually like you were just saying, like, there's not enough information. So when you're talking to someone, and we've talked to a few people who are like consultants as well, and like that, that is a huge part of right now in the industry is like, let's talk about the problems you're having and what may or may not happen if you take this or that or this. So that totally makes sense for that, you know, this industry that you're talking about like it like that whole Avon, Mary Kay all those that model, you do have to have a conversation with

Tahira Rehmatulla: 30:45

them. And and it may not work for you the first time you sure can talk to you and recommend something and you can try a couple of times and it doesn't have the effect. And then you have somebody to go back to and say, Okay, what did you do? How did you do it? Let me recommend this, and you keep iterating. But you do it with a partner, right? A guide a coach, you know, we call them ambassadors. And that I think is really important. And we are seeing the the adoption when it comes into western medicine. It's not happening fast enough and may not happen for a while. But what we are seeing is just more of the opportunity around health coaches and advocates and the openness I think for a lot of people to want to try things that are natural. But it is it's a learning process. And it's not going away anytime soon. And so be it CBD other minor cannabinoids, eventually THC. I mean, I often joke, but I'm serious about it that like cannabis has always been a peer to peer transaction. Yeah, everybody's always, you know, you got a guy. Yeah. And that's what we want to be like your, your, you know, guy, your guy or girl or gal. We want to be that, that advocate that's helping you through the process and understanding. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. But we also we want to be able to build a community of people who are able to talk to each other and share use cases. And so if we can collect that information, and then share that back out for better consumer experience for more effectiveness, and you know, the power of being able to aggregate that data, and then also inform product development. You know, I can make all the assumptions I want all day long. I'm like, What do I like and mad and what flavor? What dosing, but hearing from people, we're actually taking it on a regular basis, much more realistic view exactly. And that's really why we want to take that information, and have an inform every bit of our process. And I know in direct to consumer businesses, you are aggregating data, but there's no real follow up from there, you know, there's no talking back to the company. And what we want is everybody talking back to us, so we can actually create a better ecosystem for them. And, you know, I think beyond cannabinoids, other natural wellness products, we think of the evolution of what's happening in psilocybin, you know, just functional health. There, there's a lot of opportunity there. But at the end of the day, a lot of it is just trial and error and trying to understand, you know, even something like meditation. Yeah. There's a reason why things like headspace and calm. It's because there's a guide. Yeah, exactly. Plan for you put in place for five minutes. Exactly. Yeah. And that makes a difference in data people. And I think that that's, this is right now we're physical product, eventually we'll go into probably collaborations and partnerships with other types of services and try to create more of a platform. But obviously, we're early. But that's going to be the direction we want to go. We think that there's this great opportunity for people to take health into their own hands and figure it out together and having people to talk to I mean, the reason why I think retail and maybe even direct to consumer are not right for this or not as effective all the time is because you don't Who are you talking to? If you have something more vulnerable, like you're having sleep issues, you have this pain? Are you talking to somebody behind the counter, you know, the Vitamin Shoppe, right? Are you going to see them ever again? Yeah, no, if it doesn't work, you're going to come back and ask consulting. So it's a relationship. Yeah. And there's, there's so much value in then, you know, this, this idea had come together. Cree COVID, my co founder, Pat and I kind of came together at the end of 2019 and going into 2020 really saying, Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna do this. And then COVID hit, and so many people asked like, Okay, do you think this is the right time? I'm like, Yeah, this is the best time actually I am the best time for everybody needs something for health and mental health, you know, physical health. And then beyond that, the opportunity to diversify income. Yeah, we are seeing so much more of that and the fragility of all of our jobs. And what could happen from there, and people want to have that opportunity. And

Ronjini Joshua: 35:11

I want to be an ambassador now. Yeah, I did. I didn't get a sign. Yeah. I didn't know about comments before this. This is great.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 35:19

I will be following okay. Yeah. And you know, I think that there is also we shouldn't be afraid to talk about financial opportunity. I mean, yeah, our goal is to get more people to be able to benefit from cannabis and CBD. Because right now, the trend in the industry is like every other one, where there are wealthy white men that are running everything. And in this industry, in particular, the black and brown people who this industry has been built on our don't have the opportunity, you need a lot of money, you need just like a lot of resources that are not feasible, except for like, smaller groups of people. Yeah. And there's still so many people sitting in jail for crimes that are now legal. Yeah. And, and that process is running very slowly. I'm on the board of an organization called the last prisoner project, which was all about trying to get those people out of prison for low level nonviolent cannabis. We

Ronjini Joshua: 36:17

actually Yeah, we actually had Steve on are

Tahira Rehmatulla: 36:21

amazing. Yeah. You know, that, that those, but it takes a village. Yeah. And getting all of these policies and just draconian drug laws, and just the way that business often develops, like, you have to be able to right the wrongs in a lot of different places. And for us Commons is a way to also give people the tools to become small entrepreneurs and then learn Yeah, I would love people to just come in, you know, it's, we don't want to make it cost prohibitive. It's just but if you want to learn and you want to, you know, you have some cider, yeah. And it's never meant to be like, you have to buy $5,000 for the product and put it in your garage, and we'll take the revenue and then see you later. Nobody has to carry inventory, we manage all that we'd have different level price points for people to

Ronjini Joshua: 37:11

well, the technology has come so far that it is more sophisticated, you can don't have to do that anymore. Exactly. I will say though, like direct to consumer, as annoying as traditionally it might have been. I mean it like my mom, my parents moved here from India. And my dad was in school, when they first they he went to Auburn University in Alabama. And my mom moved here, I think, I think it was like a year or something after he came. But that was one of her first jobs, it was her first job to have an opportunity to make some kind of income as a person who did not go to school in this country, or do any of those things. She was an Avon rep. And so like, I think that direct to consumer as like a special place where like it does offer entrepreneurship or income potential. I don't think she made you know, entrepreneur like startup money, something with it. But like, I do think it kind of helped out with the bills like these are people coming new to the country. It gave them opportunities they probably didn't have because my dad was going to school. Yeah, so it's just it's, this is really like I really love it. Because I mean, obviously I'm a business owner and entrepreneur, but like, everyone doesn't have the confidence to maybe like jump into that pool right away. And this is a great way to kind of have that little toe dip your toe, see how you like it, kind of see how it works. Yeah, and then go from there. Right? Yeah,

Tahira Rehmatulla: 38:32

we really want our ambassadors to be people who also consumed the product, find benefit from it, because personal stories are the most impactful. Why people wanted to work with comments is because of our personal stories and why we're here and it is it's coming from a place of passion and like we care about it. I've seen the impact that CBD has on people and that cannabis has had on people. Yeah, the most positive way. And I am a believer, and I want other people to have that access and that opportunity. And so to then you know, come in and provide the opportunity also to try the product, see if it works for you. And then go be the advocate. You don't and we say this all the time that all of us take recommendations from our friends and our family for food restaurants travel every ever so why if somebody is providing something to you that you didn't know about Washington, they benefit from it? Why shouldn't they get a commission on it? Otherwise, it's going to Google or Facebook or somebody? Somebody is somebody is taking a cut there? Yeah. So wouldn't you rather go into like your friend or your family or somebody you know, who has offered, you know, brought this to your attention? And I'd rather that going back into small business owners pockets right and just again for some people, couple 100 bucks extra a month makes a big difference. It's your kids pianos lessons. Oh yeah, extra time for you. It's a gym membership, all of that matters and I don't think we should sure they're like everybody's not gonna become a millionaire. Right? You know, we we very much have worked to ensure that it's it doesn't create this freeloader structure and there's a lot that has to go into making sure that the compensation plan requires people to put effort in to get something out of it. And that by going out if you're really amazing and just recruiting people that you can't just sit there on your hands and collect from them. And that is

Ronjini Joshua: 40:31

a pyramid scheme. Definition.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 40:36

And, you know, it's it's meant to be collaborative, people, create teams, be mentors, and we're all going to be learning together. So we're in charge of taking all the information that's out there, distilling it down, offering it to people wanting to really digestible way but then as if they want to learn more and keep going deeper and deeper that we can offer that and just be in this kind of collaborative process where a community can develop and have a lot of dialogue around that.

Ronjini Joshua: 41:01

So for the comments product line, I have like five questions that went out Okay, hopefully we can get through this but for the comments, product lines, what what like kind of areas are you guys in?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 41:12

So we are in do we have 12 products right now they're in we have ingestibles, sublingual and topical, so okay, and the ingestibles examples of that are like we have gummies, we have soft gels for sublinguals. We have tinctures and we have a dissolvable strip, like Listerine media, kind of like a different texture. But we recommend, don't put it on your tongue, put it inside your cheek, it gets absorbed really quickly. That's a 50 milligram product. You know, we are working with a great group that's out of Columbus, Ohio that have been medical device company and they develop this food grade dissolvable polymer that can hold a decent amount of CBD or other cannabinoids in it. And we just found that the impact of it is very strong, you know, quick onset. So in that regard, we're also looking for innovation, what are other products and form factors that we can offer. And then on the topical side, we have a salve and a balm. And we'll keep expanding from there. So we're looking at products for feminine care. So when you think about menstrual cramps, menopause, cannabinoid and CBD in particular have shown to have a great impact there. So working with researchers who are doing work on that side, and our goal really is to work with the best in every kind of distinct area. So people are doing research in very specific areas, it's like you don't need to provide 10 products was like But if you provide really one really good one, and you know the ins and outs of it, we want to work with with those people. And the other goal is expanding from there. So we're looking at drink powders, different mixes, in gummies, and soft gels, we're looking at expanding those not only with other types of natural ingredients, so turmeric, ginger, but also other minor cannabinoids, so CBN CBG, to be more use case specific. So CBD can impact people in a pretty wide range. We wanted to offer what we call CBD only right now. So people could understand well, what's your tolerance? A lot of people are new consumers, but people who they they will know exactly what to go to. But for those who don't figuring out what's the most impactful format for you, because it's not all the same. Whether you if you ingest it or take it subliminally, you have a really different impact. And then getting taking that and adding more from there because we also we don't want to overwhelm people. With so many choices. You

Ronjini Joshua: 43:38

don't want to become Cheesecake Factory. Exactly. Yeah.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 43:44

Just a girl from Ohio. Yes. Give me Give me 40 different cheeses. The biggest menu ever, and I'm just a happy camper. It's very, it's overwhelmed. It's so overwhelming. And even finally, you just the waitress comes to you and you're like,

Ronjini Joshua: 44:00

when you're hungry. You're like, I can't pay

Tahira Rehmatulla: 44:02

that top one. Yeah, there are a lot of different areas. So we're, we're focused on the use case and not a lot of times it will be like okay, well who is your demographic, our demographic is really everybody because you could have somebody who is 25 to 30 dealing with physical pain that a 7580 year old is as well so like to say it should be like this age group and you know, male or female, it's universal. And that's not to say that we're trying to be everything to everybody. Yeah, just saying it applies. It applies just just like Advil applies, right? Yeah. We we hope to be able to offer just a range and even in our early days for our ambassadors so far, it's a range of it's both male and female. Okay ages because people have found relief with the product. One of our more recent products that we've released is a nighttime gummy that is see and melatonin. And for someone like me, I if I take just melatonin I feel very groggy the next day, but the mix with CBD is it's has been a nice balance. So you sleep sleep well and don't feel kind of that melatonin hangover, which is what I someone like me and not everybody feels that way. But we've been great responses to that. Yeah, just a wide mix there. And then for physical pain, like we have a lot of people who use it for the balm that we have for recovery, sports recovery. Yeah, just after working out and sore muscles. And so, you know, that can just apply to so many people.

Ronjini Joshua: 45:34

Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay, so I'm trying to figure out which question I want to ask. Because they're two very different direction. Okay. But I'm gonna I'm gonna do this one, because we might be able to get back to the other one. But this is more important. So investment wise. Yeah. I guess, you know, when it comes to investing in, you know, new businesses, and, you know, social equity and like, kind of trying to figure out how to properly represent people. I mean, you got you said, you mentioned, seven investments that you guys had made? How do you guys identify the kinds of investments you want to make? Like, what are the kind of key factors that you look at when making those

Tahira Rehmatulla: 46:17

decisions? Yeah. So Jacqueline, and I have been engaged in a lot of different parts of the industry. So have a pretty broad lens, you know, we want to we look for innovation, we look for the intersection of consumer and technology and longer those trends will be meeting with non cannabis as well. Because at the end of the day, that, yes, it's all cannabis today. But when you think of the points of intersection, it's pharmaceutical, it's CPG. It's its technology, its compliance, like they're, they're just so many different touch points. So we're interested in that because then you can, from an investment standpoint, the your tam is so much bigger, and maybe not today. But you can see where that potentially goes. And so that's that those areas are really interesting to us. We are big believers in brands and consumer products and the evolution of those products like we're drinking can right now. Yeah, beverage is, I think going to be one of the leading categories in cannabis. Not maybe not today. You see it growing. But today, compared to three years ago, it's night and day. Yeah. I remember talking about a beverage investment several years ago, with another group that I was working with, and we're everybody's like, it's way too small. dispensaries didn't have coolers, you know, they weren't set up for this type of distribution. And it's still challenging today. But you can see where that's going. Yeah. It's not just cannabis beverages. You're already seeing people shifting from tobacco and alcohol into healthier products. Yeah. So those companies are going to want to have a footprint. Yeah. And with cannabis beverage.

Ronjini Joshua: 47:54

Well, I mean, like the first time I saw I didn't see a cannabis beverage, but I saw CBD beverage. Yeah. And the first time I saw that was at a gym. I was at Barry's boot camp, okay. And I like walked in there. I was like, holy shit. Like, this is crazy. This is like maybe two years ago, and I just happened I looked at the bottles like this is really cool. And it had like, amazing flavors. And then I looked at the back of it, and it was owned by someone I knew. And I was like, Oh my God, that's funny. Yeah, so like, and then I contacted him and I was like, This is awesome. And then he was telling me about all the challenges they were facing as as a company just doing CBD beverages. And that was like couple years ago so I now they're a little bit more obviously streamlined. And they they did get they did get a rated B and they did get their product taken. And it's just kind of amazing like that, that it's come such a far away or that even one that it's come a far away but then also that that even happened over CBD.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 48:46

Yeah. And you know, until the 2018 farm bill was passed, which was December 2018. CBD was illegal. Yeah. And yeah, you know, derive it's true. You couldn't derive it from cannabis and sell it openly in the market. Any CBD that was in the US was from Canada or China right? And it was $25,000 a kilo not $500 A kilo yesterday so you've seen that massive shift and and the flood in the market and to be honest beverage a couple years ago, most products didn't taste very good. Yeah, it's the that shift as well that the innovation evolution that's happened with how do you formulate better with cannabinoids, which is not easy. There's a there's a flavor some it can be. You can taste it. Yeah. And it's also it's the development of the palette, right? There hasn't been the opportunity. It takes a while for consumers to then develop that palette

Ronjini Joshua: 49:40

and oh, we talk about wine all the time. Like you know, nobody, like the first time you had wine. Did you really love it? Probably not.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 49:46

You're like, this is great. Yeah, like, I know it's very expensive. Yeah,

Ronjini Joshua: 49:51

I like it. But

Tahira Rehmatulla: 49:53

so do this takes time. This takes years to develop and and so we're excited about brands, you know, We obviously have Commons. But then there's a there are a lot of different things outside of that, that we think are different verticals within just consumer products that are interesting. So we look at, what are those innovative products that are continuing to happen? What are ones that we think are going to be powering the industry, you know, either an analytics or other ingredient, innovation things along those lines. So it's it's brought in that sense, but at the same time, they all kind of intersect around how does it affect the day to day of the consumer?

Ronjini Joshua: 50:30

Do you think for investors in general, right now, you were talking about the intersection of technology and cannabis. And there are a lot of companies that are doing in ciliary products, because they don't want to deal with the red tape of what cannabis brings. And, or they just, they want to have a business now, and they don't have to want to have to wait. Yeah. Do you think investors are looking at that as like, Oh, this is the safer bet? Or is it just that, you know, this is uh, this is a sound decision at this time? Because of the way things are like, Why would you be looking at that versus like cannabis company?

Tahira Rehmatulla: 51:02

I think it's, it's a mix, when you look at plant touching and going first, starting with cultivation, cultivation is agricultural. Yeah, at the end of the day, in cannabis, it has been constrained and structured in certain ways where it perhaps has inflated value in that, but if you allow it to just operate it as agriculture, it's going to be all about volume, there's going to be continued price compression, you know, it's it's, the supply chain will start separating a lot more. And where's value most captured at the end of the day? So for ancillary investors, it I've seen a mix of things and even you know, for my own evaluation of it, one, there's the ability to understand a lot of it never cannabis is complicated. And to understand, why would you invest in this cultivator in California versus Michigan and vertically integrated or not retail versus distribution versus just cultivation? Micro license, you know, MSO, it's a lot to you can follow the headlines, but it can be pretty overwhelming, especially, I mean, particularly if you're not operating within the industry. So to understand the nuance of all of that, what does it mean to be in a limited licensed state versus not? You know, what is the impact of on that business? So with ancillary businesses, I think for people who maybe they understand tech, not not necessarily cannabis, but tech, they understand how to evaluate the business itself and how the the impact that it will have, they understand insurance, they understand, you know, data, and those businesses have the significant place in cannabis, but then eventually, we'll be able to translate into broader market. When you think of Nielsen collecting all this consumer data. There's, there's a lot of value in that. So you can you can see the path, I think a little bit more clearly for a lot of investors and being able to understand the likeness and like where it's gonna go. Right. Right. And for a lot of people cannabis is the plant touching side of it. It's just it's very complex. And so they, they want to go with what they know. But they know that they're able to fully diligence in a way that they understand I mean, even Jacqueline and I, we've we've looked at Tech opportunities, we're not tech people. And will we know what we don't know? Yeah, there's, there's certain things that we can like wrap our heads around, but we're like, either, we've had to pass on opportunities where we think it's a good investment, we'll probably gonna kick ourselves for not doing it, but we don't fully understand it. And we maybe can't get there in the timeline that they need. And so you kind of you kind of have to pick your bets at that point. Either you just decide to dive in or or pass on it, because we're not totally sure what this means. And well, I mean, after all, it's an investment, you're never, ever totally sure of everything get to like a certain percentage of comfort. Yeah. And if you can't get there, then probably hard time selling it to your investors. But then I think to your point earlier, there is a comfort for some on not being plant touching because they feel more protected. It's like safer from any federal crackdown that potentially happens. And that makes sense to you. It's like you want to participate but you don't, you're not ready to jump two feet in. And there has been a lack of clarity on what's the direction you know, you see some things happen in some states and not the other and so I don't blame investors for wanting to just be cautious and where they play. When somebody does one plant touching investment then they're just kind of all in Yeah, like okay, like might as well it's like whether it's this or

Ronjini Joshua: 54:37

Yeah, whether like waist up in the pool or chest up. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. So

Tahira Rehmatulla: 54:43

but we've seen a lot of investors just stay on the answer side. Are they really waiting for federal legalization or only wanting to work with trade businesses that are on the US exchanges? Not necessarily right and you know, for liquidity and just volume to just be able to understand those dynamics,

Ben Michaels: 55:01

forgive me if I missed this earlier, but it sounds to me like this is like almost like an opportunity like these people are, you know, becoming like almost like bud tenders. And they're passing on this information, right. And it's so cool, you know that they're being educated. But is, is there a possibility that they'll eventually be able to do THC related products as well? Because like, I mean, I see, like a football Sunday being like, Bill, you know, the neighbor coming over and just being like, have you smelled this bud? Yeah. Have you know, I've been mowing the lawn all weekend with us. Like, I mean, how far away? Do you think we're from something like that in relationship? Yeah,

Tahira Rehmatulla: 55:38

that that is our longer term goal there. It's complex to be able to do right now, because of one it would have to be state by state. And the license types don't actually allow for, you know, an individual to be able to see. So we're working on will not legal anyway. Yeah. And but we think there'll be an evolution regulation as well. And we're trying to figure out what does that look like, if is it feasible in the next 12 to 18 months, like what needs to happen? The reality is that the state by state element also creates a challenge, because then you'd have to set up in it. In every state, you have its own supply chain. So do manufacturing on a state by state basis. The benefit of CBD is that we're able to do it across the country and manufacturing one location ship everywhere. That gets more complicated, obviously, in cannabis. But that is the longer term goal. And you're kind of going back to like, people should be this is a peer to peer transaction. So at the end of the day, like that's, you should have the ability to do that. And hopefully,

Ronjini Joshua: 56:44

I'm on sign on now.

Tahira Rehmatulla: 56:49

With us, and we, you know, we kick around just different ideas on on, where do you even start, so maybe we will start doing THC education, being able to allow people to just start learning, and so they can, they can build that into their own as an ambassador to build that into the dialogue that they're having with people. And hopefully, we can, you know, this is we won't derive an income, but like, direct them the things in their home states, and what the regulation is, what are the opportunities, what dispensaries are available, what are the product types, so we can kind of be the guide on that side, and then hopefully, get to the point where we are. So you're building brand loyalty to or building trust, right? That's, that's really at the end of the day is it's about trust. And if you can get people to trust you, then everything is possible, because you want to be able to just keep sharing information, and then they want to share it back with you. And that's that's the power of what can eventually develop is that the sharing of information that we can kind of have back and forth. So it you know, we'll see what happens and how long that timeline takes. Sometimes I'm like, maybe we just like do a little test here. Like how long?

Ben Michaels: 58:04

Why no individual's like, I know an individual's specifically in Denver, he's a personality, and it was a big radio personality, but he has the he has legal direct, he can deliver, he hasn't delivered yet. License. Yes. So

Tahira Rehmatulla: 58:18

what you could potentially do is in a location where delivery is allowed, and you have a delivery license, you're able to manufacture your product, then you could in theory, buy through one of our ambassadors and we could deliver it. Right. It's it's hard to do at scale in that specific dynamic, but that's likely an are the one of the first iterations that we would try to do. And, you know, looking at, we're keeping an eye on New York, to see what happens with the various licenses and regulation timeline. But if you could do potentially a retail location, and we think of like a smaller footprint, but just in case people want to come, right, right, talk to someone, and they would be ambassadors, hopefully that are working that location, so your local bud tender, and then would have delivery. And that's really how product would have to be distributed. So fingers crossed, we'll see where it goes. But I'll keep you posted. Yeah.

Ronjini Joshua: 59:17

Well, though, this is a perfect stopping point. And thank you so much for your time. We didn't get to my other question. Oh, no, but that just means we'll have to have you back next time. Yeah, absolutely. This is really awesome. And I think a lot of information people like to hear you know, how how brands are developing and then also like, how does the money come? Right? Yeah, like it's like

Tahira Rehmatulla: 59:38

a big question. Yeah, money.

Ronjini Joshua: 59:41

Money. So thank you so much for joining me and we'll see you guys next time. Thank you. The Green Room podcast is brought to life by green seed PR, cannabis green tech focused PR agency and a dedicated production team of editors mixers and show Booker's a huge thank you to the vessel team for providing their studio for our recording. Don't forget to subscribe and share the greenroom podcast with friends, colleagues and family. That way you'll never miss an episode and we can keep the lights on. If you're feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast listening platform. You can also find us on Instagram at green seed PR and to the live video versions of all of our podcasts on YouTube. Would you like to be on the guest on the show? Or do you have a great guest referral? Awesome. Submit your guests at green seed PR comm slash the hyphen green hyphen room. Thanks for listening and be well